DBowling wrote: ↑
Wed May 02, 2018 4:15 am
The angels were not yet fallen when they saw that the "daughters of men" were beautiful.
But they fell when they actually married the "daughters of men".
Am I understanding that correctly?
Here's the problem I see with trying to parse the text that way.
I think we would both agree that physical sexual desires by angels towards humans is, at the very least, not natural... especially for spirit beings (and we aren't even addressing the issue of whether or not procreation between angels and humans is even possible).
Therefore, if an angel were to have unnatural sexual desires for a human being, those unnatural desires would be evidence that the angel manifesting those desires towards humans is already fallen and in rebellion against God.
Which brings me back again to my fundamental premise that Scripture never refers to fallen
angels as "sons/children of God".
Contemplating sinning isn't the same as sinning, right? Angels were tempted and I believe it was more than just a desire for sexual relations. satan, a son of God, wasn't satan until he fell. Likewise the angels being talked about in Genesis, are sons of God, until they fell, with the passage giving reason for falling. And remember, marriage is = to coming into a woman.
For who/what is being referred to with sons of God. I would have to 'delve' again because I forget my conclusion if it refers to fallen angels, or angels in a pre-fallen state. Regardless, I still remembering the Hebrew/Aramaic being more categorical about the terms use, and think I remember it being used while referencing a fallen being (I'll have to give evidence on that).
I guess I fundamentally disagree with the premise that there is a big difference with how God punished the people "in the land" in Genesis 6-9 and how he has responded to wickedness elsewhere in Scripture
In one he destroyed the world with the flood. He didn't in other places. Post-flood he used surgical precision through his people to kill off the nephilim and their remnants.
Adam is explicitly referred to as a "son of God"
This is a NT passage. I'd like an OT one.
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑
Wed May 02, 2018 6:12 am
120 years was how much time they had left before His judgment, not their max life span.
Genesis 6: 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
I'm not saying you're wrong. But I don't see this scripture saying that? And the reference to His spirit? Could you elaborate more on why you draw that conclusion?
RickD wrote: ↑
Wed May 02, 2018 6:25 am
So, you think a good angel, following after God, would have an unnatural sexual desire for a woman?
Would a good angel, following God, ever fall? This statement doesn't make any sense to me. It wouldn't allow the fall for satan or any other angel.
Not to mention the fact that angels are spiritual beings, not physical. And not to mention secondly, that afaik, the only instances of angels taking on the physical appearance of a human in scripture, are good angels doing God's will for a specific purpose. There's nothing in scripture that backs up the idea that angels can take on the appearance of humans whenever they wish.
Scripture backs up that angels have the potential. And angels have taken on real physical form. Or do you not agree with that? Fallen spirits do many things God doesn't want, I don't see why this is a special exception. Hebrews 13:2 also shows that potential angels have.
If anything, since the only angels in scripture that take on human appearance, were to do God's will in specific instances, doesn't that give more weight to the argument that angels can change to a physical human form only when God allows them to for His will?
No, I don't see it being applicable. I see scripture giving evidence that angels can take on physical form. There's no reason to believe fallen angels can't do the same thing, nor any evidence that they somehow are no longer allowed to. And if we really want to get technical, all fallen angels are doing God's will as He allowed them to fall and incorporated them into His eternal plan.