The Lord said...?

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Tina
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The Lord said...?

#1

Post by Tina » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:41 pm

I'm sorry if there are already other threads about this topic, but I have not been on this website in a while, so I apologize.

I am unsure about the Bible. How do we know what is inspired by GOD and what isn't? How do we know that it all came from GOD?

I was reading Job one day and noticed when it said "the Lord said".....and it made me unsure of the Bible. GOD doesn't verbally speak to us, as far as I know.
How are we supposed to interpret that?

It makes me wonder about if the stories are true, or if they are just stories =/ My faith has started to feel like a flickering light. I love GOD, but I am unsure about the Bible. I need some help, so if someone knows the answer, I would very much appreciate it, thank you and GOD bless.
"Love others as I have loved you." -Jesus Christ

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Re: The Lord said...?

#2

Post by blakjak02 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:35 am

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

All of scripture is God-breathed and the early determined what was God-breathed with the Canon and such-- I'm sure someone else could elaborate more on that.

It's in another thread http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =3&t=38142, have a read there, it made quite a bit of sense to me. Job is sometimes considered the oldest recorded book of the bible. Theres another discussion on the forums about Job somewhere, on a side note.

Anyways, I think its safe to say that as this was in a different era of God's method of choice for his revelation, and from that, that its safe to say that God spoke to Job directly. I wouldn't attempt to read much into it. It was a good thing that you came to the forums and asked this, God has provided Christian community for that purpose, along with scripture--- to help us grow in our faith and to hold each other accountable and build each other up. This forum has some very smart people here :)

So although my thoughts kinda jumped around, I think that we would either say that all of what we know as the Bible is inspired or none of it is-- due to the apostolic authorities and such of the early church and the way the individual writings were brought together and determined to had have been inspired. How they determined which were truly inspired is something I have no idea about, but to challenge one individual book is challenging more than just the individual book.

Overall keep trucking and don't give up!

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Re: The Lord said...?

#3

Post by 1over137 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:46 am

Seems that God speaks to prophets. This is from Acts 9:

" Now [a]Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, 2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.” 7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the [c]voice but seeing no one."

To Job He spoke out of the storm.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: The Lord said...?

#4

Post by 1over137 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:53 am

Acts 11:

"7 I also heard a voice saying to me, ‘Get up, Peter; kill and eat.’ 8 But I said, ‘By no means, Lord, for nothing [j]unholy or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ 9 But a voice from heaven answered a second time, ‘What God has cleansed, no longer [k]consider unholy.’ "
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: The Lord said...?

#5

Post by 1over137 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:59 am

Numbers 7:

"89 Now when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with Him, he heard the voice speaking to him from above the [l]mercy seat that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim, so He spoke to him."

Ezekiel 1:

"28 As the appearance of the rainbow [aa]in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking."

Ezekiel 2:

"2 Then He said to me, “Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!” 2 As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3 Then He said to me, “Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4 I am sending you to them who are [a]stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ 5 As for them, whether they listen or [c]not—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6 And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words, though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house. 7 But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or [d]not, for they are rebellious.

8 “Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you.” 9 Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a [e]scroll was in it. 10 When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe."
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: The Lord said...?

#6

Post by 1stjohn0666 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:02 am

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, Heb 1:1
This would also include audible voice that could be heard!! Many verses have YHWH speaking audibly to people directly.

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Re: The Lord said...?

#7

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:21 am

Tina wrote:I'm sorry if there are already other threads about this topic, but I have not been on this website in a while, so I apologize.

I am unsure about the Bible. How do we know what is inspired by GOD and what isn't? How do we know that it all came from GOD?

I was reading Job one day and noticed when it said "the Lord said".....and it made me unsure of the Bible. GOD doesn't verbally speak to us, as far as I know.
How are we supposed to interpret that?

It makes me wonder about if the stories are true, or if they are just stories =/ My faith has started to feel like a flickering light. I love GOD, but I am unsure about the Bible. I need some help, so if someone knows the answer, I would very much appreciate it, thank you and GOD bless.
It is up to the individual to decides, there is no way around it.
You can take someone elses word for it of course, but even then you are still making the call.
The bible is the Words of God in Human words for human audience at the time they specific book or letter was written.
They are FOR us but not directed TO Us. We must understand that God communicated according to the understanding ( and the ability of understand) of the people He was dealing with, Of course God could "enlighten" His vessel, but the audience would still be the "weak link" and as such, God's message had to be accommodated not only because of the vessel being used ( the prophets for example) but WHO the message was aimed for.
To say that the WHOLE of the bible is inspired needs a quantifier.
Define Inspired.
For some it means that the writers were directed by the HS, others it means under direct influence of the HS, for others it means that HS inspired them to write.
Some believe that IF the bible is Inspired that ALL of it MUST be error free and infallible, in short perfect.
I disagree with this because, only God and Christ are perfect, only Christ is God' Living WORD, unfiltered by sin.
Nothing else that was created by God was without error or infalliable, why would the bible be ??
Like the universe we live in, the bible is PART of this world and, imo, in need of the same redemption that the world was in need of, CHRIST.

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Re: The Lord said...?

#8

Post by Byblos » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:24 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:It is up to the individual to decides, there is no way around it.
Of course there's a way around it. It just might create some controversy :wink:.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: The Lord said...?

#9

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:31 pm

Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:It is up to the individual to decides, there is no way around it.
Of course there's a way around it. It just might create some controversy :wink:.
Well, in the end each individual believer makes the call, either based on what they have researched or what they have been told or what they choose to believe BUT it is still the up to the individual to make that call.
Personally I have no issues with the bible having a geographical error or a historical error that may have come from a copyist or scribe because to me the bible is without error when it comes to what it was meant to be - a tool pointing the way to Christ.
The world, created by God Himself is not perfect, why should I expect a book written by flawed and imperfect men to be so?
The bible is without error and infallible in its Theology., that is That Christ is Our Lord and Saviour and in Him we are to put our hope and faith and trust.

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Re: The Lord said...?

#10

Post by Byblos » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:49 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:It is up to the individual to decides, there is no way around it.
Of course there's a way around it. It just might create some controversy :wink:.
Well, in the end each individual believer makes the call, either based on what they have researched or what they have been told or what they choose to believe BUT it is still the up to the individual to make that call.
Perhaps we ought to employ the same logic when it comes to learning: never mind what the teacher is teaching, everyone should decide for themselves.

Personally I don't think God left us to decide for ourselves without any guidance.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: The Lord said...?

#11

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:04 pm

Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:It is up to the individual to decides, there is no way around it.
Of course there's a way around it. It just might create some controversy :wink:.
Well, in the end each individual believer makes the call, either based on what they have researched or what they have been told or what they choose to believe BUT it is still the up to the individual to make that call.
Perhaps we ought to employ the same logic when it comes to learning: never mind what the teacher is teaching, everyone should decide for themselves.

Personally I don't think God left us to decide for ourselves without any guidance.
Sure, so which versions is the error free and infallible one?
Some say its the KJV only, others say it was only the original manuscripts, others say that we have to go with the oldest available (codex sinaiticus and vaticanus) others say only the Majoral text like the Textus Receptus, so...which one?
What about the verse IN the bible that warn that even then, there was "tampering" with the written word:
Jeremiah 8:8
8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the Lord is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes
Has made it into a lie.

Jesus himself made a proclamation against the scribes and lawyers of His day as they would twist the writings of the prophets and the Law for their own gain:
Luke 11:46-52

46 But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them. 48 So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, 50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’ 52 Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.”

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Re: The Lord said...?

#12

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:06 pm

It isn't a question of righting off what a teacher teaches but TESTING what is being taught.
We are not discussing things like math and such, things that are "indisputable" BUT things that have been and even still are, under debates and discussions and have caused division in the Church, some of them from the very start.

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Re: The Lord said...?

#13

Post by bippy123 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:20 am

Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Byblos wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:It is up to the individual to decides, there is no way around it.
Of course there's a way around it. It just might create some controversy :wink:.
Well, in the end each individual believer makes the call, either based on what they have researched or what they have been told or what they choose to believe BUT it is still the up to the individual to make that call.
Perhaps we ought to employ the same logic when it comes to learning: never mind what the teacher is teaching, everyone should decide for themselves.

Personally I don't think God left us to decide for ourselves without any guidance.
That leads us to the essential question of whether God wanted us to all be one or splintered with many different interpretations of the bible. I wonder what the students of the apostles were taught about this :)

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Re: The Lord said...?

#14

Post by bippy123 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:28 am

Paul and who decided which books would be considered God inspired and which weren't . Remember that this wasn't fully decided until the late 3rd - early 4th century in 4 different councils. We're these councils from different denominations each with different interpretations of the scriptures or were these 4 councils from one church , and why does every Christian bible on earth stand by this one universal church's authority to decide stuff like the New Testament .

Remember that certain church leaders in Africa didn't consider Hebrews as God inspired scripture, but it was the authority of one church that decided this matter once and for all and throughout Christian history afterwards.

Who was this authority?
Who was this church?

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Re: The Lord said...?

#15

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:53 am

bippy123 wrote:Paul and who decided which books would be considered God inspired and which weren't . Remember that this wasn't fully decided until the late 3rd - early 4th century in 4 different councils. We're these councils from different denominations each with different interpretations of the scriptures or were these 4 councils from one church , and why does every Christian bible on earth stand by this one universal church's authority to decide stuff like the New Testament .

Remember that certain church leaders in Africa didn't consider Hebrews as God inspired scripture, but it was the authority of one church that decided this matter once and for all and throughout Christian history afterwards.

Who was this authority?
Who was this church?
Wasn't it Luther that thought Revelation was the ramblings of a mad man?
If we look at the oldest codexes we see that there are books in them that are not considered canon now, the Epistle Barnabas for example, and yet were considered important enough for the compilers of the codex Sinaiticus to include.
It is important to remember that the RCC Canon is not the same as the Protestant one, who is right?
Like I said above, it is and always has been, up to the individual to decide.
Lets be honest here, the bible and which books are canon and how they are inspired is NOT an issue of salvation per say, but IMO, it is important enough for each believer to learn enough about them ( books and letters of the bible) and how they came to be so that in this understanding, their faith will be strengthened.
Just taking someone elses word for it is, IMO, taking the easy way out sort of speaking.

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