How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
cubeus19
Established Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#1

Post by cubeus19 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:23 am

Hello everyone, I've got something very serious on my mind. With all the "new atheist" garbage still going around, I noticed that recently it has taken hold in the area where I live and just recently a close friend of mine became an atheist. Not to mention, a few of my family members are considering it as well.

What's very scary is that when someone becomes an atheist it is extremely difficult to get them back. And more and more I'm noticing that many nonbelievers will refuse to listen no matter what. And it seems that no matter how hard we try or how hard we pray nothing seems to work.

So, regarding the lost people who refuse to listen, are we as believers supposed to continue to argue with them, pray for them, worry about them and drive ourselves nuts over them going to hell or should we just let them be and not let the fact of them going to hell bother us anymore?

Because on one end, we are told to pray without ceasing, but in another area of the New Testament the apostles were told to "shake the dust off their feet" to any village or people that refuse to listen to what they have to say.

I mean, for me I really am very sensitive to lost people and I really hurt for them and for myself especially for my lost friends and loved ones. But in all honesty, should we as Christians care so much? Because on one end Christ tells us to love others as we love our self, but love people too much God says they we are not worthy of Him.

I starting to think I really shouldn't waste my time with people who refuse to listen. Instead of crying and being depressed about the stubborn lost wouldn't it be better to refocus my energy on reaching the lost who will still listen?

Also, I'm really concerned about the afterlife. If I make it into heaven and hardly any of my friends and loved ones make it in, how will I or others who are in the same situation, be able to be happy and enjoy anything while knowing that their friends and loved ones are suffering in hell? I used to think in the past before this new atheism garbage became popular that I wouldn't be put in that situation and most if not all my friends and family would be saved, but now I think the opposite is true.

What do you think I and every other believer should handle these questions? Thanks and GB.

bippy123
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:56 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 92 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#2

Post by bippy123 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:46 am

Cubeus it's obvious from this post that have an awesome Christ-love for others.the new atheist movement is more of an emotional-rebellious rant against God then anything else. It's the hippie thing of our days. They will not listen to reason so we should pray for them, but if we start arguing with them it will be like tossing your pearls before swine until they trample you under their feet.

As far as the unbelievers who are open minded they can be reached . Plant that seed and they will seek. That's the beginning of their journey, and remember that it was Jesus that said everyone who seeks will find.
As for friends and family, keep praying for them because the Lord can create miracles when you least expect it.

I was recently chatting with a 17 year old who was bashing Christians as he had this idea that we were all backward people. After an hour of chatting with him on different subjects concerning God and Christianity hecwasnt so sure about his unbelief. I added him to my friends list and asked him if I could pray for him to which he reluctantly agreed. A few weeks went by and he actually pm'ed me and to my surprise he told me that he actually went to church for the first time to be by his cousins side for his baptism. He said it felt weird. I then asked him if he was going to attend again and he might. You see Cubeus I could have argued for months with him ( like I used to do), but this time I discussed a bit with him and prayed for him instead and left the rest up to the lord, for in the end it is Jesus that brings his sheep to him. All a person needs to do is say yes, even if it's a very tentative yes. Christ can do so much with so little :)

If you have anyone in particular that you want me to pray for just send me a pm and I will put them on my prayer list:)
Just don't lose that purity of heart and compassion you have for others. It is your special gift from the Lord.

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9228
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 349 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#3

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:48 am

One must be conscious that NOTHING we say or do is what gets "through" to people.
What does it, convert them or make them believers, is the HS working in them.
All we can ever do is defend our faith and be the change we want to happen in the world.
The rest is up to Christ.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21521
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 202 times
Been liked: 1103 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#4

Post by RickD » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:14 am

So, regarding the lost people who refuse to listen, are we as believers supposed to continue to argue with them, pray for them, worry about them and drive ourselves nuts over them going to hell or should we just let them be and not let the fact of them going to hell bother us anymore?
Some people are just looking for an argument. They really have no intention of listening. We need to pray for discernment in this. Ask God to show you if they're really looking for answers, or just looking for an argument. God will show you what to do.
I mean, for me I really am very sensitive to lost people and I really hurt for them and for myself especially for my lost friends and loved ones. But in all honesty, should we as Christians care so much? Because on one end Christ tells us to love others as we love our self, but love people too much God says they we are not worthy of Him.
Cubeus, if this is something that is really on your heart, keep praying that God will lead people to you that you can witness to. Ask God to give them the questions, and ask Him to give you the answers.

I starting to think I really shouldn't waste my time with people who refuse to listen. Instead of crying and being depressed about the stubborn lost wouldn't it be better to refocus my energy on
reaching the lost who will still listen?
I for one, couldn't witness to people who weren't open to hear anything. This is where you need to pray. If you're in a situation that you believe someone just doesn't want to listen, or just wants to argue, ask God to show you what to do. Maybe He will lead you to say something, maybe He won't. Sometimes, even the smallest thing we say in love to an unbeliever, is a seed that gets planted. Sometimes that seed gets watered at a later time by someone else. It's not always about winning everyone to Christ every time we witness.
It's clear to me that you have a love for unbelievers. Continually pray that God will use you for His will. Don't give up on your prayers. God hears them. And if you are praying for His will to be done, your prayers will be answered in God's time.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

cubeus19
Established Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#5

Post by cubeus19 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:56 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses, they are some very great answers! But one area that you all haven't looked at yet was the question that not only I asked but it's quite a commonly asked question from both believers and non believers which is, how can believers who have lost friends and family members be happy in heaven while knowing that such people are suffering in hell? I'm curious as to what kind of answers you have.

From what I've heard in the past I've heard everything from "God will make people forget about lost friends and loved ones" to "God will give the believer (s) so many awesome and good things and cause believers to be so filled with joy and happiness that their joy and happiness will greatly over ride any sorrow or disappointment sustained from knowing that such and such friends and family members are in hell".

I've even heard that believers will then see "the big picture" through God's eyes and even have pleasure over their former friends and family members who are in hell. Well, maybe not pleasure for instance, but see that this scenario was fair, just, God's will, and the "right thing".

Which for me personally, these answers may help a little, but they just don't cut it when you deeply think about what will happen to such people whom you, me, and others hold dear. If you all know of any other good answers to this question other than the ones I provided, please feel free to provide them. Thanks guys! GB.

User avatar
Furstentum Liechtenstein
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:55 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: It's Complicated
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Lower Canuckistan
Has liked: 110 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#6

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:16 pm

cubeus19 wrote:Thanks everyone for your responses, they are some very great answers!
I also thought that the answers given to your original question were excellent, with each person coming at it from a different angle. I am a former atheist, raised an atheist, and was a member of an atheist organization here in my home country. So...if I was saved, anybody can be saved. Anybody.
cubeus19 wrote: ... how can believers who have lost friends and family members be happy in heaven while knowing that such people are suffering in hell?
You answered your own question when you said that,
cubeus19 wrote:"God will make people forget about lost friends and loved ones''
God will make all things new and past things will be forgotten...This answers your question succinctly and should make you all the more aware of the urgency of spreading the gospel message.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8536
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 408 times
Been liked: 645 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#7

Post by Philip » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:21 pm

Furstentum, if you could, please point to one or two big things that began to turn you around - what were they?

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8536
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 408 times
Been liked: 645 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#8

Post by Philip » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:41 pm

As soon as I realize that someone is just making me chase rabbits down many holes, that they're not really listening or sincere in their questions, then I like to let them know that. I'll say something like, "this is not productive," or "you're just trying to get me chasing irrelevant shadows instead of sincerely searching for the truth of things." Of course, one must use discernment, but I think it is good to call the bluff or sidestepping of the insincere.

So often, people falsely believe that just because they might have been able to overwhelm you with difficult or irrelevant questions, that they have also somehow have proven their point. So I think when you call them on it, it may jar them into realizing their own insincerity. People are good at convincing themselves of their own disingenuous lies, and thinking themselves clever. Don't let them believe it. Let them know you're on to them. It just might cause some much-needed soul searching and introspection.

cubeus19
Established Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#9

Post by cubeus19 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:22 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
cubeus19 wrote:Thanks everyone for your responses, they are some very great answers!
I also thought that the answers given to your original question were excellent, with each person coming at it from a different angle. I am a former atheist, raised an atheist, and was a member of an atheist organization here in my home country. So...if I was saved, anybody can be saved. Anybody.
cubeus19 wrote: ... how can believers who have lost friends and family members be happy in heaven while knowing that such people are suffering in hell?
You answered your own question when you said that,
cubeus19 wrote:"God will make people forget about lost friends and loved ones''
God will make all things new and past things will be forgotten...This answers your question succinctly and should make you all the more aware of the urgency of spreading the gospel message.

FL


Hey There FL, that is a decent response, but it does raise more questions for me than it does answers. For instance, if this was how God will take care of this issue, does this mean that He will make us forget other things from our past lives as well both good and bad things?

What if God removes all memories from everyone's past life in order to avoid pain and disappointment? Which again on one hand it would take care of the problem, but wouldn't that make this life almost meaningless if He takes away most or all memories from people?

And if you or anyone else says that God will just remove the memories of lost friends and loved ones without removing all other past life memories, that would be difficult too since there will be a few "lucky families" whom all have trusted Christ and made it in and thus everyone will either be reminded of their own friends and family from their past life or be reminded that a thing called family and friends from such people and then will wonder about what happened to their own lost friends and family members.

So, this question is way more difficult than it appears to be at first. Now I personally hope that God deals with this either by giving us something to replace or over ride the pain and sorrow or that He deals with this problem in such a unknown way (to us right now) that would be so complex, so awesome, and so brilliant that no human being past, present, and future would ever see or visualize because of it being so complex, awesome and brilliant.

As in it would be something either slightly less complex and or every bit as hard for us to understand (right now in our limited capability) as is the Trinity for instance. Just like how today people can't fully understand the complexity and brilliance of The Trinity or how God can be three persons and yet be one God, God could apply such complexity and brilliance to the solution to this problem.

Let me know what you all think of this possibility. Thanks again and GB.

Danieltwotwenty
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:01 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Aussie Land
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 11 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#10

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:31 pm

Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible.”
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

cubeus19
Established Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:17 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#11

Post by cubeus19 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:14 pm

Exactly, Good point Dan!

User avatar
Furstentum Liechtenstein
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:55 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: It's Complicated
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Lower Canuckistan
Has liked: 110 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#12

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:04 pm

cubeus19 wrote:Let me know what you all think of this possibility.
You just have to trust God that he will make everything alright...

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +

bippy123
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:56 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 92 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#13

Post by bippy123 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:33 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
cubeus19 wrote:Let me know what you all think of this possibility.
You just have to trust God that he will make everything alright...

FL
Amen Furst, thats what its always been about:)

User avatar
Furstentum Liechtenstein
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:55 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: It's Complicated
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Lower Canuckistan
Has liked: 110 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#14

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:04 pm

Philip wrote:Furstentum, if you could, please point to one or two big things that began to turn you around - what were they?
Nothing ''began'' to turn me around to Christianity. Right up until my last day as an atheist, I was an adherant to the standard atheist explanations for the religious experience (weakness, fear, lack of education, lack of intelligence, superstition, cultural brainwashing and so on). No amount of Bible study will make an atheist say, ''Yeah...this Bible could be true!''

In my case, I went to bed an atheist and I woke up a believer...and saved.

Salvation and faith is* a gift of God, isn't that what the Bible says?

FL

*is, not are: That's not a typo! Salvation-and-faith are one and indivisible.
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21521
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 202 times
Been liked: 1103 times

Re: How concerned should we be towards stubborn lost people?

#15

Post by RickD » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:19 pm

In my case, I went to bed an atheist and I woke up a believer...and saved.
Please, continue...I gotta hear this.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Post Reply