Clothing Laws?

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Clothing Laws?

#1

Post by Ivellious » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:26 pm

This is the second time in a few weeks that I've read a story about "religious discrimination" involving a Christian girl being forced to wear pants instead of a skirt or dress. In this case, fast food restaurant Burger King requires all employees to wear black pants as part of the uniform. The girl claimed religious discrimination because her religion (a Pentecostal Christian) forbids her from wearing men's clothing. Here's the story:

http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/chris ... 00700.html

The article lists Deuteronomy 22:5, "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God," as the religious reasoning.

So, my question is, is this a typical Christian belief? I certainly don't know anyone myself who is a Christian or a Jew who follows this law. Is there some other biblical reason as to why most Christians don't adhere to this law today? And also, what would some kinds of modern, non-gender specific clothing be classified as?

Thanks.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#2

Post by RickD » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:01 pm

So, my question is, is this a typical Christian belief?
It's not even a typical Pentecostal belief. I've been to a few Assemblies of God churches here, and I've never heard of it.
Is there some other biblical reason as to why most Christians don't adhere to this law today?
Because it was a specific law, given to a specific people, at a specific time. I know some don't like that answer, but I'm stickin to it.

How can women's pants be classified as men's clothing? It seems her branch of Pentecostalism is too legalistic.
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Re: Clothing Laws?

#3

Post by inlovewiththe44 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:13 pm

Honestly, the concept of male v. female clothing is dependent upon culture. It is a man-made concept. Therefore, I tend to agree with Rick on this one. Laws that pertain to culture traditions only applied to the culture these laws were presented to.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#4

Post by inlovewiththe44 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:15 pm

But I'm sure that will just open up yet another discussion on what laws are meant for us as Christians and what was meant only for the theocracy God set into place with His people. y#-o

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#5

Post by Jac3510 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:58 pm

Like Rick said, it's just cherry picking the Law--it's legalism. The same chapter says not to wear clothes made out of two kinds of fabrics and to execute someone who commits adultery. Does her denomination practice those? I somehow doubt it.

Most Christians recognize that they are not under the Law. The problem is that most read through the Law and find parts that they like, so they find justification for being under that part but not parts they don't like. It's rather silly, but that's just the nature of it. Very few Christians that I know recognize the fact that we are not under ANY of the Law.

The common view among Christians seems to be that we are under the moral aspect of the Law, but that the civil and ceremonial parts have been done away with. There's no biblical basis for such a distinction, but people want to think that the Ten Commandments still apply, and it is easy to cite Leviticus when arguing about gay marriage. I suppose such things are the motivations. Ask them, however, for the hermeneutical principles by which they decide which parts they are under and which parts they aren't, and you'll get a blank stare.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#6

Post by Gman » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:26 pm

Ivellious wrote:This is the second time in a few weeks that I've read a story about "religious discrimination" involving a Christian girl being forced to wear pants instead of a skirt or dress. In this case, fast food restaurant Burger King requires all employees to wear black pants as part of the uniform. The girl claimed religious discrimination because her religion (a Pentecostal Christian) forbids her from wearing men's clothing. Here's the story:

http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/chris ... 00700.html

The article lists Deuteronomy 22:5, "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God," as the religious reasoning.

So, my question is, is this a typical Christian belief? I certainly don't know anyone myself who is a Christian or a Jew who follows this law. Is there some other biblical reason as to why most Christians don't adhere to this law today? And also, what would some kinds of modern, non-gender specific clothing be classified as?

Thanks.
Many Christians say that G-d's laws don't apply to us anymore.. But I disagree.. G-d laws still apply to us today, which would include dress code. Obviously certain jobs would require certain dress, to that working clothes resemble more man's clothes than women's clothes. But if someone told me that I had to wear a dress to work, I would simply quit.

Why do we have such laws? To be set apart from the nations...
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Re: Clothing Laws?

#7

Post by Ivellious » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:31 pm

I don't think anyone is saying that God's laws don't apply, Gman...On the contrary, I think the point being made is that certain laws do not. Again, if you believe it is an abomination to wear "women's" clothes, do you also think that adulterers should be executed? Or that wearing mixed threads is evil? I don't think most Christians would believe that, yet they are written in the same set of laws as the gender-clothing laws. Those who pick and choose which random Old Testament laws apply to Christians today make no sense to me.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#8

Post by Gman » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:46 pm

Ivellious wrote:I don't think anyone is saying that God's laws don't apply, Gman...On the contrary, I think the point being made is that certain laws do not.
Yes... Pick and choose which law you want to do, and not the other. Sorry, I don't believe that.
Ivellious wrote:Again, if you believe it is an abomination to wear "women's" clothes, do you also think that adulterers should be executed? Or that wearing mixed threads is evil?
Yes, it's sin... Whether someone should be executed for a certain law is not up to any individual. It's would be up to a ruling court known as the Sanhedrin (which is absent today).
Ivellious wrote:I don't think most Christians would believe that, yet they are written in the same set of laws as the gender-clothing laws. Those who pick and choose which random Old Testament laws apply to Christians today make no sense to me.
They pick and choose because they don't want to obey...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#9

Post by Jac3510 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:48 pm

Ivellious wrote:I don't think anyone is saying that God's laws don't apply, Gman.
I am! :fyi:

(If by "apply" you mean we are under their authority just as ancient Israel was)
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#10

Post by Ivellious » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:54 pm

So, Gman, to be perfectly clear, you believe that wearing mixed threads, other clothing laws, dietary laws, and all sexual laws, and all male-supremacy laws stated within the Old Testament are absolutely relevant and applicable to Christians today, and that violating any of them is an abomination toward God? Do you follow such laws?
I am!
To clarify, I meant to say that most Christians do not believe God's laws apply, but that many in the OT have been overridden or deemed irrelevant in light of the NT. Clearly God's laws in the NT ought to be followed to be a Christian.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#11

Post by Jac3510 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:06 pm

And you are clearer. For my own clarification, I don't think the Mosaic Law is either irrelevant or that it has been overridden. I think it applied to the nation of Israel. Gentiles are not Israelites, and so it didn't and doesn't apply to us. Since the Church isn't Israel, then the Law doesn't have authority over the Church, either. So even Jews who accept Christ are no longer under the Law, since they are now members of the Church.

I do think that one day the Church will be taken from the scene, and at that point God will again continue His work with Israel as a nation. But then the New Covenant will be consummated. In short, dispensationalism ftw! :)
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#12

Post by cheezerrox » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:19 pm

The discussion of whether or not the Law applies to Christians is a different discussion, that's been attempted to be had other times on this board. If people are interested in discussing it now, I think it'd make a wonderful idea for a thread, personally. While those who believe Torah still applies are in the minority, there still is a significant amount of them (somewhere around 300,000 worldwide, probably), and numbers are growing.

And as far as the law itself (Deuteronomy 22:5), I think it's easy for all to see that a woman wearing pants is in no way trying to appear as a man. It would miss the point of the law itself to interpret it that way. And it's this reason why even the most Orthodox of Jewish women are still able to wear pants without issue.

It is cherry picking laws, and it is legalism. Her church is in error.
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Re: Clothing Laws?

#13

Post by RickD » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:31 pm

Ivellious wrote:
Again, if you believe it is an abomination to wear "women's" clothes, do you also think that adulterers should be executed? Or that wearing mixed threads is evil?

Gman wrote:
Yes, it's sin... Whether someone should be executed for a certain law is not up to any individual. It's would be up to a ruling court known as the Sanhedrin (which is absent today).
Deuteronomy 22:11 11Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.
While this law specifically mentions wool and linen, I think if we go by the spirit of this law, any mixed material clothing would be wrong. I used to wear cotton/polyester shirts, but the guilt I felt was so overwhelming, that I had to sacrifice a lamb every time I wore my favorite shirt. Those sacrifices allowed me to sleep at night.

Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

One cold winter night, I caught my wife wearing my coat. I was so angry and hurt that she would commit an abomination, just because she was cold. I had no choice but to drag her by her hair, inside the house where I whipped her mercilessly for her abomination. She had to learn that lesson the hard way.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Clothing Laws?

#14

Post by inlovewiththe44 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:37 pm

Sometimes when I'm sad, Rick, I just read your comments and everything is ok. :lol:

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Re: Clothing Laws?

#15

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:33 am

Ivellious wrote:So, Gman, to be perfectly clear, you believe that wearing mixed threads, other clothing laws, dietary laws, and all sexual laws, and all male-supremacy laws stated within the Old Testament are absolutely relevant and applicable to Christians today, and that violating any of them is an abomination toward God?
LOL.. Male-supremacy laws? I see that you are appealing to the emotional rather than an understanding of scripture. But yes, G-d's laws are relevant today for both Jew and Gentile and when we don't follow them we sin..
Ivellious wrote:Do you follow such laws?


No.. But that doesn't mean that we throw them away either. Only Christ really had it all down which is why we need His grace to follow them.. Do you follow His Laws?
I am!

To clarify, I meant to say that most Christians do not believe God's laws apply, but that many in the OT have been overridden or deemed irrelevant in light of the NT. Clearly God's laws in the NT ought to be followed to be a Christian.
And what are G-d's laws?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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