Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

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Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#1

Post by DRDS » Thu May 24, 2012 5:49 pm

Hey everyone, one of the things that really keeps troubling me is finding a effective way to witness to people. To be honest I'm not good at all at witnessing hence the reason why I rarely do it and if I do it's mostly on the internet.

But one of the problems I have seen ever since I was a child all the way to today is many Christians who are not trained in apologetics, theology, and even proper doctrine many times try to oversell Christianity to lost people and one of the ways they do this is by making people think their lives will greatly improve once they become a believer.

I remember hearing these kinds of things in many of the local churches I used to attend when I was young or on many of the "christian" tv programs I would watch the people would say that once you accept Christ, Christ literally comes and lives inside you and supernaturally or even mystically changes you from the inside instantly to where you no longer sin or even want to sin.

They go onto say that you become instantly and forever happy and if you had any bad sinful habits as a lost person they will immediately vanish and you will no longer have to deal with them. I mostly saw this claim with people who used to be addicted to drugs and alcohol. And then finally of course depending upon whether or not the pastor or the speaker has a sweet tooth for the prosperity gospel they will go on to say that once a person accepts Christ they will over time become healthy and wealthy in every aspect of their life.

And quite frankly in my life and in my Christian experience hardly any of these things have come to pass in my life. And the more I've been around people here and at other apologetics venues by and large most tend to share the same kind of Christian experience I have. Now granted I do have hope,a sense of happiness and a sense of objective meaning, but it doesn't go much further than that.

But anyway, do you all think that's one of the main reasons why people today aren't as receptive towards the gospel because it doesn't live up to the promises that many of yesterdays and even many of today's uninformed pastors and teachers led them to believe?

Is the most honest and real way to witness to people is to tell them the truth about the Christian life that believe to have hope, meaning, and a way to get out of hell when we die? Not to mention isn't it best to tell them that living the Christian life is extremely difficult and that whoever decides to become one will be persecuted and marginalized for the rest of their lives? You know as tough of a sell that this would be to lost people, I still believe you would actually see more people come to Christ and more people not give up on being a Christian and de-convert into a agnostic, atheist, or something else.

But in conclusion that's how I currently see things, let me know if you see any problems with this. As always thank you for your time, and God bless.

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#2

Post by B. W. » Thu May 24, 2012 6:52 pm

There are many ways to witness to others. The most effective I think is the example of the life you live. Another, is a believer in Christ’s personal testimony. Another comes from knowing the Word of God (Bible) and what Jesus did. But the most powerful is the Holy Spirit within a Believer granting insights that brings in catch onto God’s shore.

Is there a method you are looking for? DRDS, can you refine what you would like that would make you a better witness?
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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#3

Post by DRDS » Thu May 24, 2012 7:16 pm

B. W. wrote:But the most powerful is the Holy Spirit within a Believer granting insights that brings in catch onto God’s shore.

Is there a method you are looking for? DRDS, can you refine what you would like that would make you a better witness?
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Yeah if it's ok can you elaborate on the phrase above? As I mentioned above I so far as of now and throughout my Christian walk I have not been able to say with uttermost confidence that I have "felt" "sensed" "been led by" "been given any special knowledge or insight" or anything like that in terms of sensing the Holy Spirit or anything of that sorts.

If you have again, please elaborate and give me the details on what it is like and how a believer goes about experiencing such.

When looking though some other threads recently on this one http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 99#p121299

Jac3510 makes a very good point in relation to this so if it's ok Jac if you see this I wanted to give you credit for it, because it really rings true to me in my personal experience. Anyway when talking about the Holy Spirit or the inner witness he says:

"I suspect our difference comes simply in that I do not believe there is such a thing as the inner witness of the Spirit. I do believe that the Spirit indwells us, but shy of biblical revelation, there's no way we would know that. I mean, there's no way a Christian can look inside Himself and "find" or "feel" the Spirit. I know He indwells me, but that, again, is something I know objectively rather than subjectively. That is, I know it because the HS indwells all believers and I am a believer, therefore I am indwelt. I cannot say, tough, that the HS indwells all believers and that I am indwelt, therefore I am a believer. The reason is that I don't know whether or not I am indwelt unless I first know that I am a believer. There is no way, on my view, to know whether or not I am indwelt other than the reasoning I've provided."

And to me something like that by and large matches to what my Christian walk and experience has been like. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. And if I am please let me know so I can correct things and begin to really "feel" or "sense" the Holy Spirit for the first time.

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#4

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri May 25, 2012 7:09 am

B. W. wrote:There are many ways to witness to others. The most effective I think is the example of the life you live. Another, is a believer in Christ’s personal testimony. Another comes from knowing the Word of God (Bible) and what Jesus did. But the most powerful is the Holy Spirit within a Believer granting insights that brings in catch onto God’s shore.

Is there a method you are looking for? DRDS, can you refine what you would like that would make you a better witness?
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This.
I would add that we should witness from our heart and with love and to answer those questions wo which we do NOT know the answer with a simple, "I don't know".
I am in my last year of my degree (bach) in Theology and the one thing I have learned is that there are SO MANY views on every single topic of Christianity.

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#5

Post by B. W. » Fri May 25, 2012 8:49 am

DRDS wrote:
B. W. wrote:But the most powerful is the Holy Spirit within a Believer granting insights that brings in catch onto God’s shore.

Is there a method you are looking for? DRDS, can you refine what you would like that would make you a better witness?
Yeah if it's ok can you elaborate on the phrase above? As I mentioned above I so far as of now and throughout my Christian walk I have not been able to say with uttermost confidence that I have "felt" "sensed" "been led by" "been given any special knowledge or insight" or anything like that in terms of sensing the Holy Spirit or anything of that sorts.

If you have again, please elaborate and give me the details on what it is like and how a believer goes about experiencing such.

When looking though some other threads recently on this one http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 99#p121299

Jac3510 makes a very good point in relation to this so if it's ok Jac if you see this I wanted to give you credit for it, because it really rings true to me in my personal experience. Anyway when talking about the Holy Spirit or the inner witness he says:

"I suspect our difference comes simply in that I do not believe there is such a thing as the inner witness of the Spirit. I do believe that the Spirit indwells us, but shy of biblical revelation, there's no way we would know that. I mean, there's no way a Christian can look inside Himself and "find" or "feel" the Spirit. I know He indwells me, but that, again, is something I know objectively rather than subjectively. That is, I know it because the HS indwells all believers and I am a believer, therefore I am indwelt. I cannot say, tough, that the HS indwells all believers and that I am indwelt, therefore I am a believer. The reason is that I don't know whether or not I am indwelt unless I first know that I am a believer. There is no way, on my view, to know whether or not I am indwelt other than the reasoning I've provided."

And to me something like that by and large matches to what my Christian walk and experience has been like. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. And if I am please let me know so I can correct things and begin to really "feel" or "sense" the Holy Spirit for the first time.
There are so many various ways in which we witness for Christ. As PaulSacramento points out:
PaulSacramento wrote:…I would add that we should witness from our heart and with love and to answer those questions wo which we do NOT know the answer with a simple, "I don't know". I am in my last year of my degree (bach) in Theology and the one thing I have learned is that there are SO MANY views on every single topic of Christianity.
Witness from our heart and honesty…

Also let me add more and help address your comment pertaining to the witness of the Holy Spirit:

On this matter, one must go to the bible for answers. What does the word say on this matter?

Our Westernized culture and system scolds and forbids any notion of the witness of the Holy Spirit due to fear that such inner witness a person has lead to error and can’t be trusted. I have a Native American (First Nation) ministry, it is far easier to witness to them, as by and large, their culture seeks after God. Our Western Culture seeks to run from God. A westernize approach to witnessing to First Nation peoples often is not effective as it is geared to those running away from God, not groping after God as Paul explains in Acts 17:27.

It is far easier to share and teach on the witness of the Holy Spirit to First Nation people than to the westernize. There is a Witness of the Holy Spirit and it indeed exist for that is what the bible plainly teaches. There are many various omni-person ways the Holy Spirit witnesses to a believer and speaks to them.

Here are some guidelines from the Word: John 16:13, 14, 15, 26 – The Holy Spirit will speak and teach.-- Note John 14:26

Luke 12:12 – principle here mentions Holy Spirit will help our witness with words and lives.

If He speaks, then it is we who need to learn how to listen and discern properly His promptings, leadings, speaking, guidance, conviction, sanctifying work, etc and etc. All these truths are found within the bible. The problem is with us. Our western ideas tell us we cannot trust hearing the witness of the Holy Spirit at all. Who is right – the bible or western ideas on this subject? – you decide.

So how does a person discern the Holy Spirit witness to help our witness of Christ be more effective?

First, The holy Spirit will never contradict or misuse the bible to justify breaking the command of the Lord found in Matthew 22:37-40. He will not guide a person to hang themselves or commit murder or justify harm to another. In fact, personalize 1 Co 13:4-6 and read it thus:

“I suffer long and am kind; I do not envy; I do not parade myself, I am not puffed up;
I do not behave rudely, I do not seek my own, I am not easily provoked, I think no evil (malice);
I do not rejoice in iniquity, but I rejoice in the truth;
I bear all things, I believe all things (godly), I hope (expect all things (godly), I endure all things...”

That is how the Holy Spirit operates within us and his leading will not violate one iota of the above statement. So whatever forms of witness one receives, feeling, sensation, leading, prompting, still quiet voice, etc can be discerned by this – does it line up?

Common Way the Holy Spirit Witnesses to a Believer: Conscience

The most common way the Holy Spirit witnesses to us is thru our conscience. For example, a Christian person walks by a Bar and notes the bar has strippers insides. The person succumbs to sin and reaches for the door and – wham – their conscience says NO - a feeling of NO is felt / sensed – No Do Not Enter. If one but listens, they would turn away.

If not, and they ignore this witness saying – ‘oh well the Holy Spirit witness cannot be trusted, therefore, O am justified to enter this strip club cause I am lead to witness Christ to the strippers.' Instead, then - sin makes a ruin of that Christian’s walk and the witness of their life, marred.

So Pay attention to the Holy Spirit witness to ones conscience – that NO Do Not Enter is for our protection. Also, the bible tells us not to walk in the ways of the ungodly so as to justify one’s entrance into a sinful area or situation. Doing so does not line up with the bible. Discernment is key and knowing the Word paramount.

Knowing the Word of God is Paramount to proper discerning the Holy Spirit’s witness:

This takes time and be always learning from the bible. The Holy Spirit also speaks to us witnesses to our Sprit who we are and what we are thru the bible. Ask the Lord before you read, show from this bible as I read what I need to know today. From such reading and pondering, and studying the word, you develop your spiritual attunement and development to hear the Holy Spirit’s witness more effectively. There is more I can say here on this matter but I think those reading can get the picture.

There are further ways to develop and operating by the Witness of the Holy Spirit such as Faith that he does speak and lead and guide in all truth. I will share a bit more on this as we go but for now, ponder what I wrote. How many NO don’t Do moments have we all had?
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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#6

Post by jlay » Fri May 25, 2012 10:47 am

But one of the problems I have seen ever since I was a child all the way to today is many Christians who are not trained in apologetics, theology, and even proper doctrine many times try to oversell Christianity to lost people and one of the ways they do this is by making people think their lives will greatly improve once they become a believer.
Zeal without knowledge is a problem, but that isn't really what you describe here
I remember hearing these kinds of things in many of the local churches I used to attend when I was young or on many of the "christian" tv programs I would watch the people would say that once you accept Christ, Christ literally comes and lives inside you and supernaturally or even mystically changes you from the inside instantly to where you no longer sin or even want to sin. They go onto say that you become instantly and forever happy and if you had any bad sinful habits as a lost person they will immediately vanish and you will no longer have to deal with them. I mostly saw this claim with people who used to be addicted to drugs and alcohol. And then finally of course depending upon whether or not the pastor or the speaker has a sweet tooth for the prosperity gospel they will go on to say that once a person accepts Christ they will over time become healthy and wealthy in every aspect of their life.
This has nothing to do with lack of training in apologetics. This is a false Gospel plain and simple. Paul tells BELIEVERS (those already saved) Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world.. (Romans 12:1,2) In fact much of the NT is an instruction, rebuke and correction. So, if people were converted and mystically changed, then we could condense the NT down to a pamphlet.

So, yes, people do hear that, and so, they say, "what the hey, I've given everything else a try, why not Jesus." And of course, apart from some self-induced euphoria they may feel, they are still their miserable selves with the same job and same problems before. And when they don't magically poof away, they leave bitter towards "Christianity."

This doesn't mean a believer has to be an expert in apologetics. They don't. And I think we can make too much of such things. If someone as a sinner comes to Christ in faith, they have a personal and powerful testimony. I talk to people all the time. They have questions, they have objections. I try to answer as many as I can, but that doesn't change the fact that they are a sinner, and God created them with a conscience. If you have a man drowing in the rapids, and suddenly a life preserver is thrown in front of him, it doesn't matter if his buddy drowning next to him says, "Hey, you can't know if there is somebody on the other end of that rope." That man is going to grab the life preserver. People aren't going to be saved because of clever arguments. They can only be saved when the reality of their sin causes them to call on the Savior. (I'm not saying those arguments don't help get us to that place.)

So, the best thing we can do is make sure that we are not manipulating people with a man centered Gospel. We need to be faithful to Christ and cross centered witnessing. The only part that should be focused on the person is how utterly desperate they are to be saved.

--Also, I'm not saying people can't be delivered. I have a friend that was an addict and dealer. He has a remarkable testimony of how he was preparing to take his life. He opened a Bible he had and began to read. He was a low as you can get. The obvious reality of his sinful nature was evdient. That night, as a sinner, he placed his faith in the Savior. He claims he was instantly delivered of addiction from Cocaine without any withdrawls. But this should never be dangled as bait for a person to come to Christ. The reason to come to Christ is their desperate condition before a Holy God. What a terrible thing for a person to go to Hell, when God has already paid the price for their sin.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#7

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri May 25, 2012 11:03 am

At the most those that witness can only "point the finger" and leave the rest to the HS.
Of course there are times when those that witness ( and those being witnessed to) focus on the finger and miss "all the heavenly glory".
Which, incidentally, is how I view the bible ( the finger) and Christ ( Heavenly glory).

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#8

Post by RickD » Fri May 25, 2012 1:49 pm

B.W. so eloquently wrote:
Our Westernized culture and system scolds and forbids any notion of the witness of the Holy Spirit due to fear that such inner witness a person has lead to error and can’t be trusted. I have a Native American (First Nation) ministry, it is far easier to witness to them, as by and large, their culture seeks after God. Our Western Culture seeks to run from God. A westernize approach to witnessing to First Nation peoples often is not effective as it is geared to those running away from God, not groping after God as Paul explains in Acts 17:27.

It is far easier to share and teach on the witness of the Holy Spirit to First Nation people than to the westernize. There is a Witness of the Holy Spirit and it indeed exist for that is what the bible plainly teaches. There are many various omni-person ways the Holy Spirit witnesses to a believer and speaks to them.

Here are some guidelines from the Word: John 16:13, 14, 15, 26 – The Holy Spirit will speak and teach.-- Note John 14:26

Luke 12:12 – principle here mentions Holy Spirit will help our witness with words and lives.

If He speaks, then it is we who need to learn how to listen and discern properly His promptings, leadings, speaking, guidance, conviction, sanctifying work, etc and etc. All these truths are found within the bible. The problem is with us. Our western ideas tell us we cannot trust hearing the witness of the Holy Spirit at all. Who is right – the bible or western ideas on this subject? – you decide.

So how does a person discern the Holy Spirit witness to help our witness of Christ be more effective?

First, The holy Spirit will never contradict or misuse the bible to justify breaking the command of the Lord found in Matthew 22:37-40. He will not guide a person to hang themselves or commit murder or justify harm to another. In fact, personalize 1 Co 13:4-6 and read it thus:

“I suffer long and am kind; I do not envy; I do not parade myself, I am not puffed up;
I do not behave rudely, I do not seek my own, I am not easily provoked, I think no evil (malice);
I do not rejoice in iniquity, but I rejoice in the truth;
I bear all things, I believe all things (godly), I hope (expect all things (godly), I endure all things...”

That is how the Holy Spirit operates within us and his leading will not violate one iota of the above statement. So whatever forms of witness one receives, feeling, sensation, leading, prompting, still quiet voice, etc can be discerned by this – does it line up?

Common Way the Holy Spirit Witnesses to a Believer: Conscience

The most common way the Holy Spirit witnesses to us is thru our conscience. For example, a Christian person walks by a Bar and notes the bar has strippers insides. The person succumbs to sin and reaches for the door and – wham – their conscience says NO - a feeling of NO is felt / sensed – No Do Not Enter. If one but listens, they would turn away.

If not, and they ignore this witness saying – ‘oh well the Holy Spirit witness cannot be trusted, therefore, O am justified to enter this strip club cause I am lead to witness Christ to the strippers.' Instead, then - sin makes a ruin of that Christian’s walk and the witness of their life, marred.

So Pay attention to the Holy Spirit witness to ones conscience – that NO Do Not Enter is for our protection. Also, the bible tells us not to walk in the ways of the ungodly so as to justify one’s entrance into a sinful area or situation. Doing so does not line up with the bible. Discernment is key and knowing the Word paramount.

Knowing the Word of God is Paramount to proper discerning the Holy Spirit’s witness:

This takes time and be always learning from the bible. The Holy Spirit also speaks to us witnesses to our Sprit who we are and what we are thru the bible. Ask the Lord before you read, show from this bible as I read what I need to know today. From such reading and pondering, and studying the word, you develop your spiritual attunement and development to hear the Holy Spirit’s witness more effectively. There is more I can say here on this matter but I think those reading can get the picture.

There are further ways to develop and operating by the Witness of the Holy Spirit such as Faith that he does speak and lead and guide in all truth. I will share a bit more on this as we go but for now, ponder what I wrote. How many NO don’t Do moments have we all had?
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Can I get an Amen!!!!!

B.W. I'm so glad you wrote this. I was beginning to think I was the only one who believed this! Thank You.
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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#9

Post by B. W. » Fri May 25, 2012 3:13 pm

I edited some of the post above as I posted it rather quickly... this morning by selecting The Submit button instead of Preview button!

I’ll add more a bit later…
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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#10

Post by B. W. » Fri May 25, 2012 11:07 pm

+
Often I hear Christians ask, how do I develop a real live living relationship with Christ? Can a person really hear the Lord? How can one know if what I they hear or feel or sense is from God or not? Is there a way to tell? How can I be a witness? Or how can I witness for Christ?

Hearing the Lord and correctly discerning how the Lord speaks makes all the difference in the life of a believer. By His witness we can actually experience and develop a real vibrant personal relationship with Christ. We can be a more effective in our relationship with others and ourselves. Our understanding in the ways and Word of God grows. Service to the Lord, or lack of it, changes into a life giving flow. Our prayers become more alive and results seen. One gains insight into the Lord’s timing. There are so many benefits from learning to hear the Lord that it would be too numerous to list them all.

Short review: How do you keep from error and know what this witness is and how to identify The Holy Spirit Witness at work in our lives

How does one hear and know when the Lord speaks, what manner does he speak? That is what we were looking at in the prior post. We learned that we hear the Lord by the Witness of the Holy Spirit. Without his witness, a Christian can only do so much and often become discouraged and weary in the faith.

From the last post, we learned that we can discern the Witness of the Holy Spirit by knowing he will not go against what is in the bible and never lead anyone to commit mayhem and malice. We saw how the Holy Spirit speaks to our conscience with those - Don’t do that Moments - and about knowing the Word of God (bible). The Holy Spirit speaks to us thru the bible, leads, us guides us, comforts us from the word.

It is by faith that we know that there is such a thing as the Witness of the Holy Spirit from the bible. He teaches, Guides, leads, convicts, empowers, us as Jesus says in John 14:26, John 16:13, 14, 15. The Holy Spirit sets us apart unto the Lord and helps us along the way and He speaks. All these things the bible reveals to us what is called – the witness of the Holy Spirit. Do you, reader, believe this witness is for you today?

How does the Holy Spirit Witness – speaks to us? (Principles found in Romans 8:26, 27c Luke 12:12c, Luke 21:15c)

One way is thru our subconscious. This means, many Christian are not even aware the Holy Spirit is speaking to them or thru them. We are not aware of the subconscious working of the Holy Spirit and often attribute this when actions, thoughts or deeds manifest within our conscience level, we think it was our own doing-doing the doing.

What do I mean by this? For example, you, as a believer, come across a friend, acquaintance, stranger, family member with some need you hear them talking about and you ask, can I pray for you? That is the Witness of the Holy Spirit emerging from ones subconscious level into one's conscience level. Just stop and think how not normal it is to say to someone, let’s pray or can I pray for you about this and thus and such.

When you ran around as a non-believer, did you say, can I pray for you? Probably not, some us said instead – tough luck, feel bad for you, I am so sorry to hear that, or even, too bad, let’s go to the bar Dr Jack Daniels can cure that hurt… I don’t recall non-believers saying or asking – can I pray for your need. Maybe another faith may have but not often.

How abnormal it is in the world’s eyes, to say, Let’s pray about it, or may I pray for you. So you see, it is by the Witness of the Holy Spirit that causes you to ask this and pray. I doubt many of us when we were unsaved would ever say, Can I pray for you, to a person all down and out or hurt. Or take to time to pray in our prayer closet for someone. Most non-believers, don't pray.

The Holy Spirit moves us, as believers, to pray in so many ways that we often ignore this, thinking instead it is us promoting ourselves. How often did we pray as an unbeliever? Only Prayers I prayed, said the thief before he was caught were selfish ones, like: God if you are get me out of this jam,or that Oh Lord, don’t let the cops know prayers, you get the point…Those are not Holy Ghost motivated prayers but human derived.

Other times, when we are confronted to speak up for Christ or share something uplifting to another, the Witness of the Holy Spirit will cause our mouths to say things that causes you to ponder, Hey that wasn’t me, how did I think of this to say, moments. Again those are moments that the Holy Spirit moves from our subconscious to conscience level. It happened to Peter and Stephen, in fact all the disciples and apostles and prophets of old were moved thus as the bible records. Why can't you and I then be so moved?

Another subconscious Witness of the Holy Spirit involves sanctification

Another form of Witness of the Holy Spirit in our subconscious involves sanctification (2 Thess 2:13 and 1 Peter 1:2). Best way I can describe this would be through this example. Take a table and place a Kleenex box in the middle of the table. The Kleenex box represents your new Heart God promises thru the new birth. The Holy Spirit resides there. Next, take a weeks worth of junk mail and toss it unto the table. The table top represents the soul, or mind of the flesh and the junk mail symbolizes issues that hinder our Christian walk and manner of hearing the Lord such as rejection, bitterness, addictions, anger, all manner of self defeating behaviors, sins, works of the flesh, etc and etc…

The Holy Spirit now resides in the control room (your heart) and focuses on ridding the table top of Junk Mail, one piece at a time. You are not aware of this, but often feel that Holy Ghost Ouch as some hindering issue you have is exposed and a choice set before – freedom or slavery, which way will you go, how long will you go on repeating till you let it go moments. Guess what, you are hearing the Lord speak to you, and not even aware he is cleaning house till the ouch comes!

That is enough for now. I listed only a few of the ways the Lord speaks to us. There are more and these more that involve hearing him in various ways in our emotions, senses, intuition, and yes, even that still quiet voice principle found in 1 Kings 19:12 NKJV. If i can, I'll next look into these.

What I shared so far happens to believers so often that many do not even realize the effect of the Holy Spirit Witness is having in their lives and think they can't hear the Lord at all. How are you hearing and have been hearing the Holy Spirit? You do hear so why do you, the reader, think you can’t?

The Holy Spirit teaches our spirit that we do indeed belong to God (Romans 8:16c) in short stages. It is sort of like, learning slowly, in short steps, how to trust and act upon what you hear, how you hear, from the Holy Spirit Witness within (John 14:17c). During these stages or steps you to recognize His voice and how he speaks. What stage are you in reader, today?
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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#11

Post by DRDS » Sun May 27, 2012 1:03 am

Thank you all for the replies. I'm defiantly taking notes on this.

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#12

Post by B. W. » Sun May 27, 2012 5:33 pm

DRDS wrote:Thank you all for the replies. I'm defiantly taking notes on this.
Thank you posting - there is more to add to what was shared. I'll see if I can post more on where we left off...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#13

Post by DRDS » Mon May 28, 2012 12:22 am

Also you mentioned earlier BW about believers sharing their testimony, here is mine that I posted in the testimonies section some time ago.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 32&t=36359

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#14

Post by mandelduke » Mon May 28, 2012 1:42 pm

B. W. wrote:+
Often I hear Christians ask, how do I develop a real live living relationship with Christ? Can a person really hear the Lord? How can one know if what I they hear or feel or sense is from God or not? Is there a way to tell? How can I be a witness? Or how can I witness for Christ?

Hearing the Lord and correctly discerning how the Lord speaks makes all the difference in the life of a believer. By His witness we can actually experience and develop a real vibrant personal relationship with Christ. We can be a more effective in our relationship with others and ourselves. Our understanding in the ways and Word of God grows. Service to the Lord, or lack of it, changes into a life giving flow. Our prayers become more alive and results seen. One gains insight into the Lord’s timing. There are so many benefits from learning to hear the Lord that it would be too numerous to list them all.

Short review: How do you keep from error and know what this witness is and how to identify The Holy Spirit Witness at work in our lives

How does one hear and know when the Lord speaks, what manner does he speak? That is what we were looking at in the prior post. We learned that we hear the Lord by the Witness of the Holy Spirit. Without his witness, a Christian can only do so much and often become discouraged and weary in the faith.

From the last post, we learned that we can discern the Witness of the Holy Spirit by knowing he will not go against what is in the bible and never lead anyone to commit mayhem and malice. We saw how the Holy Spirit speaks to our conscience with those - Don’t do that Moments - and about knowing the Word of God (bible). The Holy Spirit speaks to us thru the bible, leads, us guides us, comforts us from the word.

It is by faith that we know that there is such a thing as the Witness of the Holy Spirit from the bible. He teaches, Guides, leads, convicts, empowers, us as Jesus says in John 14:26, John 16:13, 14, 15. The Holy Spirit sets us apart unto the Lord and helps us along the way and He speaks. All these things the bible reveals to us what is called – the witness of the Holy Spirit. Do you, reader, believe this witness is for you today?

How does the Holy Spirit Witness – speaks to us? (Principles found in Romans 8:26, 27c Luke 12:12c, Luke 21:15c)

One way is thru our subconscious. This means, many Christian are not even aware the Holy Spirit is speaking to them or thru them. We are not aware of the subconscious working of the Holy Spirit and often attribute this when actions, thoughts or deeds manifest within our conscience level, we think it was our own doing-doing the doing.

What do I mean by this? For example, you, as a believer, come across a friend, acquaintance, stranger, family member with some need you hear them talking about and you ask, can I pray for you? That is the Witness of the Holy Spirit emerging from ones subconscious level into one's conscience level. Just stop and think how not normal it is to say to someone, let’s pray or can I pray for you about this and thus and such.

When you ran around as a non-believer, did you say, can I pray for you? Probably not, some us said instead – tough luck, feel bad for you, I am so sorry to hear that, or even, too bad, let’s go to the bar Dr Jack Daniels can cure that hurt… I don’t recall non-believers saying or asking – can I pray for your need. Maybe another faith may have but not often.

How abnormal it is in the world’s eyes, to say, Let’s pray about it, or may I pray for you. So you see, it is by the Witness of the Holy Spirit that causes you to ask this and pray. I doubt many of us when we were unsaved would ever say, Can I pray for you, to a person all down and out or hurt. Or take to time to pray in our prayer closet for someone. Most non-believers, don't pray.

The Holy Spirit moves us, as believers, to pray in so many ways that we often ignore this, thinking instead it is us promoting ourselves. How often did we pray as an unbeliever? Only Prayers I prayed, said the thief before he was caught were selfish ones, like: God if you are get me out of this jam,or that Oh Lord, don’t let the cops know prayers, you get the point…Those are not Holy Ghost motivated prayers but human derived.

Other times, when we are confronted to speak up for Christ or share something uplifting to another, the Witness of the Holy Spirit will cause our mouths to say things that causes you to ponder, Hey that wasn’t me, how did I think of this to say, moments. Again those are moments that the Holy Spirit moves from our subconscious to conscience level. It happened to Peter and Stephen, in fact all the disciples and apostles and prophets of old were moved thus as the bible records. Why can't you and I then be so moved?

Another subconscious Witness of the Holy Spirit involves sanctification

Another form of Witness of the Holy Spirit in our subconscious involves sanctification (2 Thess 2:13 and 1 Peter 1:2). Best way I can describe this would be through this example. Take a table and place a Kleenex box in the middle of the table. The Kleenex box represents your new Heart God promises thru the new birth. The Holy Spirit resides there. Next, take a weeks worth of junk mail and toss it unto the table. The table top represents the soul, or mind of the flesh and the junk mail symbolizes issues that hinder our Christian walk and manner of hearing the Lord such as rejection, bitterness, addictions, anger, all manner of self defeating behaviors, sins, works of the flesh, etc and etc…

The Holy Spirit now resides in the control room (your heart) and focuses on ridding the table top of Junk Mail, one piece at a time. You are not aware of this, but often feel that Holy Ghost Ouch as some hindering issue you have is exposed and a choice set before – freedom or slavery, which way will you go, how long will you go on repeating till you let it go moments. Guess what, you are hearing the Lord speak to you, and not even aware he is cleaning house till the ouch comes!

That is enough for now. I listed only a few of the ways the Lord speaks to us. There are more and these more that involve hearing him in various ways in our emotions, senses, intuition, and yes, even that still quiet voice principle found in 1 Kings 19:12 NKJV. If i can, I'll next look into these.

What I shared so far happens to believers so often that many do not even realize the effect of the Holy Spirit Witness is having in their lives and think they can't hear the Lord at all. How are you hearing and have been hearing the Holy Spirit? You do hear so why do you, the reader, think you can’t?

The Holy Spirit teaches our spirit that we do indeed belong to God (Romans 8:16c) in short stages. It is sort of like, learning slowly, in short steps, how to trust and act upon what you hear, how you hear, from the Holy Spirit Witness within (John 14:17c). During these stages or steps you to recognize His voice and how he speaks. What stage are you in reader, today?
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How sweet is the voice of my Lord! Three years ago when my eighteen year daughter died, we talked for about two weeks. The Lord has talked to me since I was a child, and we have had a relationship since then. But it was rocky to say the least. Mainly because GOD told me I was a hardheaded stiff-necked person. But after the love and understanding he showed me when my daughter died, our relationship has been special. I love him with everything in me, and I will gladly do whatever he asks of me.

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Re: Problems witnessing to people and some things to try

#15

Post by B. W. » Tue May 29, 2012 9:28 am

mandelduke wrote:...How sweet is the voice of my Lord! Three years ago when my eighteen year daughter died, we talked for about two weeks. The Lord has talked to me since I was a child, and we have had a relationship since then. But it was rocky to say the least. Mainly because GOD told me I was a hardheaded stiff-necked person. But after the love and understanding he showed me when my daughter died, our relationship has been special. I love him with everything in me, and I will gladly do whatever he asks of me.
Very powerful words... thank you for sharing this! It touched me as the Lord spoke thru this to me.

Again, Thank you!

I'll add more later this subject...
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-
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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