Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
educationreigns
Acquainted Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#1

Post by educationreigns » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:13 am

copied and pasted from this site:
"On "not being permitted to teach" - Some interpret this passage to mean that women should never teach in the assembled church. However, commentators point out that Paul did not forbid women from ever teaching. Paul's commended co-worker, Priscilla, taught Apollos, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26).41"

Its strange that you never displayed of the actual bible verse, listed below:

Timothy 2:9 - 15* 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Copied directly from this site also:
"Ultimately, the most important principle in the Christian life is to do what Jesus told us to do."

I'm really confused now. You can go against some things the bible says and still be christian but not others that you chose to say are OK? It clearly states for women not to teach. You can't deny it. So by letting them teach, you are going against gods word but that's OK for Paul and us? But when you talk about not doing drugs you say Christians have to follow the word of god and "do what Jesus told us to do."

But in any case, I can't be a christian because I was born out of wedlock anyways, so why bother being a christian? I can't go to heaven according to the bible. Maybe there is some contradicting verse about forgiveness(even though I did not do anything), but more reason to doubt even trying to be a christian.

Deuteronomy 23-2 "A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD” :amen:

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10005
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 644 times
Been liked: 664 times

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#2

Post by Kurieuo » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:27 am

You are right that women were not to teach especially in the 1st century. I did not know this was necessarily a reflection upon Christianity though, but rather the society at that time. The political and learned environment, dominated by men, would have probably not taken lightly of women teaching and being given position of authority over men. Such is a reflection of the culture, and not necessarily religion.

But someone who names themself educationreigns probably would have already been educated and known that. Right? :poke:

educationreigns
Acquainted Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#3

Post by educationreigns » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:15 pm

I don't understand your just proving my point. Religion is culture, not the truth... do you believe the bible or not?

educationreigns
Acquainted Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#4

Post by educationreigns » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:21 pm

So you don't believe everything the bible says? you are not a true christian...

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10005
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 644 times
Been liked: 664 times

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#5

Post by Kurieuo » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:19 pm

I believe you need to provide a more honest hermenuatic that places Scripture in context, rather than your own personal one which seems quite subjectively and emotionally driven. Paul was often sensative to the different cultures he visited when spreading the Gospel.

If you examine history, women were culturally not educated. It was considered the domain of men. Even in our Western societies, 100 years ago the role of women was to stay at home, raise the family and support the husband who worked. Things have drastically changed today.

Now Paul was thoroughly saturated with the culture of his day. He could not be. Yet, he seems quite aware of it when he talks in the Timothy passage that you quoted, stating this as his personal beliefs and providing his own justification. Let me quote the passage more thoroughly:
  • 8 Therefore I [Paul] want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

    11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
It is obvious Paul is speaking from his time and culture. His main desire in verse 8 is that Christians within a church are able to worship God without anger and dispute. And so Paul proposes what he personally sees as a good option for churches.

educationreigns
Acquainted Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#6

Post by educationreigns » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:23 pm

do you believe every verse in the bible or not?

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10005
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 644 times
Been liked: 664 times

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#7

Post by Kurieuo » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:30 pm

educationreigns wrote:So you don't believe everything the bible says? you are not a true christian...
If believe that God utilised the distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers from whom Scripture came. I also believe one needs to be more objective in their hermenutic with understanding what is written, the context, who it is intended for, etc.

However, being a Christian is not founded on the Bible. This is secondary. Whether you are a "true Christian" is based on your response to Christ Himself. Christ is the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:11). Everything else is secondary to Christ. So I would just encourage you to investigate the claims of Christ.

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10005
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 644 times
Been liked: 664 times

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#8

Post by Kurieuo » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:31 pm

educationreigns wrote:do you believe every verse in the bible or not?
Not your interpretation of them which rips them entirely out of context.

educationreigns
Acquainted Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#9

Post by educationreigns » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:36 pm

How is the bible verse about women not teaching out of context? You think I'm anti-god or something I just don't believe EVERY word. Geez...

User avatar
B. W.
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8365
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
Christian: Yes
Location: Colorado
Has liked: 102 times
Been liked: 260 times

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#10

Post by B. W. » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:41 pm

educationreigns wrote:How is the bible verse about women not teaching out of context? You think I'm anti-god or something I just don't believe EVERY word. Geez...
What does the bible verse mean to you?
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

educationreigns
Acquainted Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#11

Post by educationreigns » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:46 pm

That during the time of Jesus women where not allowed to teach because it was against the culture at the time.
That now we should look past these verses and not believe that if a person does not follow every word of the bible then they will go to hell
That there are many other verses that are sexist such as:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10005
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 644 times
Been liked: 664 times

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#12

Post by Kurieuo » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:47 pm

educationreigns wrote:How is the bible verse about women not teaching out of context? You think I'm anti-god or something I just don't believe EVERY word. Geez...
Maybe you should introduce yourself so we know you're not anti-god or something: http://discussions.godandscience.org/viewforum.php?f=2? ;)

User avatar
Tina
Established Member
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:19 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#13

Post by Tina » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:55 pm

[quote=" 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. [/list]
It is obvious Paul is speaking from his time and culture. His main desire in verse 8 is that Christians within a church are able to worship God without anger and dispute. And so Paul proposes what he personally sees as a good option for churches.[/quote]

Why is it that these cultural beliefs are in the Bible? ( By the way, I think this verse is absolutely ridiculous, it's like saying you love your first child more than your second. And Adam knew just as well as Eve not to eat from the tree, but he did it anyway. I prefer this verse much more

---->For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
"Love others as I have loved you." -Jesus Christ

dayage
Valued Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:39 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#14

Post by dayage » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:16 pm

Tina,

You cannot "prefer" one text over another. Paul was setting up an orderly way of doing things, which I will try to address.


educationreigns,
Deut. 22 was already answered.
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =9&t=37135
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm

User avatar
kmr
Valued Member
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:17 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Why does christianity contradict itself so much?

#15

Post by kmr » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:04 pm

Education, you often repeat the question of whether or not we believe in every verse in the Bible. Of course we do! But the Bible is not a rule-book of what we arbitrarily must and must not do, it is a collection of historical documents and letters. You quote about Hebrew law from Deuteronomy very often... what you must remember is that that, indeed, was Hebrew law. God gave it to the Hebrews to protect them from the hostile and anti-God civilizations that surrounded them. That was the Jewish "old covenant", which was changed or "fulfilled" when Christ came. I believe in the whole Bible, but I believe that in dying on the cross, Christ fulfilled the law and established a new covenant with us. Plus, we are not surrounded by dozens of tribes that want to wipe us off the face of the earth, so I don't think these rules are quite necessary.

The same goes with Paul... remember that he was writing LETTERS of ADVICE to specific towns and people, not a rule-book from God himself.

Now, you are probably going to say something along the lines of "Aha! So religion is just culture!" Or, "So you don't believe in every verse in the Bible!" In response to these, I will say that the only guide book that God gave us is the covenant established by Christ. The rest is inspired advice given, indeed, to the different cultures of the time. Paul's writings were all letters, so obviously they were cultural. And anyone who says that the OT Hebrew law wasn't there for their cultural protection hasn't read the OT in context. But just because the Bible includes cultural documents doesn't mean that 1) they aren't relevant today, and 2) it isn't inspired by God.
- KMR

Dominum meum amō!

Post Reply