Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

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Widge
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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#91

Post by Widge » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:27 am

cypher wrote:Do you believe that being homosexual is wrong?
People are born heterosexual or homosexual. This is a big problem for people, and demonizes religion for an atheist. Most people i know will laugh at the idea of religion because of the lack of caring they show for homosexuality.
shouldn't Christians disregard the passages that deny homosexuals a right to love? Just like they disregard the passage that does not allow shellfish?

I like them I have friends who are Gay they are no better or worse than anyone else. We all sin and fall short of Gods glory

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#92

Post by Murray » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:44 pm

Widge, I think the difference might be, that you are living in sin by choosing a homosexual lifestyle. And living in sin and struggling with sin are 2 very different things.
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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#93

Post by zacchaeus » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:50 pm

Gen 1:27 made man/woman
Gen 1:31 it was GOOD

Also note: We are born "in sin", not "of sin"!!! Its impossible to be born a Homosexual!!! Homosexuality is a sin... God is not the author or creator of sin!!! You can choose to be a homosexual, absolutely, but anyone can choose to sin, its what you do after becoming conscience of sin and accountable as the Holy Spirit convicts. Good rule of thumb, it you have to ask if its a sin, or is there a such thing as a homosexual Christian, or will I got to hell for being a homosexual, did God make me this way??? Then the answer isn't clear to you and its most likely a sin and wrong and all those answers will be evident. I'd say something in your moral gauge is off, conscience, etc. Its never good to fight a doubting conscience or to be double minded... James 1:8, 4:8, Romans 14:13

When Jesus was asked about the subject of divorce and marriage He quoted from Genesis:
And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Jesus showed us that marriage is based in a literal understanding of Genesis 2:23–24, which states, “‘This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.’ Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” The reason husband and wife become one flesh is that Eve was taken from Adam’s side. They truly were one flesh. Jesus also pointed out that marriage was to be between a man and woman. Any alteration of this message serves as a flat-out denial of the clear words of our Creator.

Resource: http://www.answersingenesis.org/

Question: "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"

Answer: The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality.

However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

Sodom and Gomorrah

Question: "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?"

Answer: The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the Lord and two angels coming to speak with Abraham. The Lord informed Abraham that "the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous." Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the Lord to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham's nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom.

Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then "the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities..."

In light of the passage, the most common response to the question "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?" is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term "sodomy" came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..." The Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination." Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.

Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point. While Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.

Resource: Unknown, don't remember website, the Bible, and um some of me...

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#94

Post by jlay » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:01 pm

We all sin and fall short of Gods glory
Yes we do. So what is Paul's point in this verse. The way you are using it is in an "i'm ok, you're ok." sort of way. This is certainly not what Paul was saying. This wasn't an excuse for sin. It was a sweeping condemnation of those under the law (Jew) and those without. (Gentile)

If I cheat on my wife, and I say, "Oh well, we all sin......" I am abusing the grace of God for an occassion of the flesh. Grace is not an endorsement of sin, which is basically what you are saying here.
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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#95

Post by zacchaeus » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:51 pm

Yeah using the scripture "we all fall short of the glory" is def a major defect in Churches world wide, using this as an excuse to justify things they just don't won't to give up, yet!!! I think its universal even if sin wasn't in the picture that we all fall short of the glory simply because were not God... but lets use it in the case of sin.

Question:
If you sinned at least once... would this statement still not be true? Rhetorical, of course it would be true...

Just because we all sin doesn't mean its a continual state and that we have to... we are actually commanded not to (ex:) like when Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more, how could that be possible unless it is possible. We have the power not to, not that it's our power, but the power of the Holy Spirit. Remember we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. We can be without sin and live a sinless life especially since we are "born again" and made a "new creature" in Christ. The past is erased and now your a fruit bearer in the dispensation of conscience and accountability. Now I don't know anyone personally other than Christ who was perfect and is perfect, but that doesn't mean that just because we don't have enough obedience or belief that we can't. I like to picture us running a race with Jesus when I think of this scripture... Jesus will always be first, He can never lose, but you can get so close that its a photo finish or that you can reach out and hold His garment as your running.

"Also note that your period of grace does not come after the act of sin but before the act of sin is ever committed. When temptation arises and your thoughts are towards the act of whatever the sin is that is being tempted, you actually debate with yourself and wonder/ponder what will happen if you do this; knowing that its wrong. The period of grace is when your conviction (The Holy Spirit) is warning you not to do something; you can both be obedient and heed to Him, or you can be disobedient and sin “choosing” to blow the opportunity or period of grace God has allotted you. Again, it’s evident one has chance after chance and opportunity after opportunity to come to know Him and call upon His name. If we die and are not saved, deny or reject our salvation that is in no way Gods fault. He has been more than patient and given you second, third, and fourth chances and opportunities."-BCD

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#96

Post by Widge » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:12 am

Homsosexuality is no better or worse than any other sin. Many Christians eat too much when there are people starving in the world. That is far worse!

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#97

Post by Murray » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:32 pm

1 Corinthians 6:9 ?

Being homosexuality is embracing a sin, not struggling with one. When one becomes a christian he should aim to change his ways of past sin ( 1Peter 1:14 ) .

Do you know a christian (true christian) who openly embraces stealing, and says it is ok and makes 0 effort to change. I mean it is just a sin right? Why waste effort to change it, It is just a sin. I know of no true christian that embraces that point of view on stealing.

Now, I do know a true christian, who perhaps once was a thief, but changed his ways because he realized thievery is not glorifying god and he should not strive to continually commit that act.

Now perhaps a christian is addicted to something, like sex or something. He will justify it by saying "it's just a sin, why worry about it". That is a terrible point of view, he is openly embracing his sin, how does that glorify god?

A homosexual needs to acknowledge he is sinning by choosing that lifestyle, he cannot keep hiding the fact it is a sin. He perhaps should re-read Proverbs 28:13 .

If a homosexual wishes to stop his sinning he can, remember what Paul once said "in your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood" ( Hebrews 12:4 )
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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#98

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:15 pm

It's been made clear several times in the Bible that inclinations of a sexual nature, whether heterosexual or homosexual, OF THEMSELVES are not a sin. HOWEVER, acting on them out of the area that God intended (heterosexual marriage) is wrong. It's the ACT that is wrong, not the inclination.
Catholicism for example, discusses what we are to do in regards to homosexuals in the Catechism, and it states simply to accept them and love them as children of God and attempt to be compassionate for their struggle and temptations are not ones that heterosexual people deal with. However, just like with ANY OTHER sinful act, we are supposed to hate the sin but love the person.

Also, we are not supposed to "lust" after anyone -- a man is not even supposed to "lust" after his wife. Lust implies unclean thoughts that degrade a human soul to being simply an object of sexual gratification. A man can "desire" his wife, but "lust" in any form, hetero or homosexually, is wrong.
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#99

Post by Widge » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:13 am

StMonicaGuideMe wrote:It's been made clear several times in the Bible that inclinations of a sexual nature, whether heterosexual or homosexual, OF THEMSELVES are not a sin. HOWEVER, acting on them out of the area that God intended (heterosexual marriage) is wrong. It's the ACT that is wrong, not the inclination.
Catholicism for example, discusses what we are to do in regards to homosexuals in the Catechism, and it states simply to accept them and love them as children of God and attempt to be compassionate for their struggle and temptations are not ones that heterosexual people deal with. However, just like with ANY OTHER sinful act, we are supposed to hate the sin but love the person.

Also, we are not supposed to "lust" after anyone -- a man is not even supposed to "lust" after his wife. Lust implies unclean thoughts that degrade a human soul to being simply an object of sexual gratification. A man can "desire" his wife, but "lust" in any form, hetero or homosexually, is wrong.
We all sin that is the point. Do all Christians honestly confess all their sins? Homosexuals are no different also if they are born Gay what can they do? If they ask God to change them and they do not then what?

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#100

Post by neo-x » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:57 am

jlay on Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:01 am

We all sin and fall short of Gods glory

Yes we do. So what is Paul's point in this verse. The way you are using it is in an "i'm ok, you're ok." sort of way. This is certainly not what Paul was saying. This wasn't an excuse for sin. It was a sweeping condemnation of those under the law (Jew) and those without. (Gentile)

If I cheat on my wife, and I say, "Oh well, we all sin......" I am abusing the grace of God for an occassion of the flesh. Grace is not an endorsement of sin, which is basically what you are saying here.
Great point, J
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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#101

Post by Widge » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:01 am

Widge wrote:
StMonicaGuideMe wrote:It's been made clear several times in the Bible that inclinations of a sexual nature, whether heterosexual or homosexual, OF THEMSELVES are not a sin. HOWEVER, acting on them out of the area that God intended (heterosexual marriage) is wrong. It's the ACT that is wrong, not the inclination.
Catholicism for example, discusses what we are to do in regards to homosexuals in the Catechism, and it states simply to accept them and love them as children of God and attempt to be compassionate for their struggle and temptations are not ones that heterosexual people deal with. However, just like with ANY OTHER sinful act, we are supposed to hate the sin but love the person.

Also, we are not supposed to "lust" after anyone -- a man is not even supposed to "lust" after his wife. Lust implies unclean thoughts that degrade a human soul to being simply an object of sexual gratification. A man can "desire" his wife, but "lust" in any form, hetero or homosexually, is wrong.
We all sin that is the point. Do all Christians honestly confess all their sins? Homosexuals are no different also if they are born Gay what can they do? If they ask God to change them and they do not then what?
It is interesting that we Christians ignore certain sins like ignoring the poor, being greedy even living together is ok as long as they get married in the end etc.. are Christians hypocrites?

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#102

Post by Murray » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:22 pm

widge, read and reply to my post please. I'll even re-post it for you. Tell me where I am wrong



1 Corinthians 6:9

Being homosexuality is embracing a sin, not struggling with one. When one becomes a christian he should aim to change his ways of past sin ( 1Peter 1:14 ) .

Do you know a christian (true christian) who openly embraces stealing, and says it is ok and makes 0 effort to change. I mean it is just a sin right? Why waste effort to change it, It is just a sin. I know of no true christian that embraces that point of view on stealing.

Now, I do know a true christian, who perhaps once was a thief, but changed his ways because he realized thievery is not glorifying god and he should not strive to continually commit that act.

Now perhaps a christian is addicted to something, like sex or something. He will justify it by saying "it's just a sin, why worry about it". That is a terrible point of view, he is openly embracing his sin, how does that glorify god?

A homosexual needs to acknowledge he is sinning by choosing that lifestyle, he cannot keep hiding the fact it is a sin. He perhaps should re-read Proverbs 28:13 .

If a homosexual wishes to stop his sinning he can, remember what Paul once said "in your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood" ( Hebrews 12:4 )
in nomine patri et fili spiritu sancte

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#103

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:01 pm

Widge wrote:Do all Christians honestly confess all their sins?
They should, or they won't receive forgiveness. There's also more to asking for forgiveness than meets the eye. So many tend to forget that "saying sorry" also means an intent to avoid the sin again. You can't just keep doing the same thing over and over and over again intentionally and then go seek mercy. That's called presuming God's mercy (and not tolerated) and also being a hypocrite.
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#104

Post by jlay » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:06 pm

Stmon.,

What if a believer has forgotten a sin they committed? Are you saying they won't be forgiven? Or that forgiveness is dependent on one reforming their life?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

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Re: Why do many christians not like homosexuals?

#105

Post by Murray » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:21 pm

I tend to ask the ones I remember and at the end ask forgiveness for "all of my sins"
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