Lust and sin

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believ3r
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Lust and sin

#1

Post by believ3r » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:30 pm

I've spent a few years not really worshipping God, and I realize that was a mistake and now I'm trying to change all of that. I'm finding that some parts of coming back are easier than others. Predictably, the hardest part is fighting my lust drive. Don't get me wrong, I don't sleep around, still a virgin. My lust sin mostly takes the form of, to be blunt, porn and masturbation.

I'm having trouble fighting the sin of lust. It just feels so good, and it's naturally part of my biology to want women. One of the big parts about the struggle is that it doesn't have a very clear explanation of why it's bad to lust, aside from God said not to do it. The other sins, they have clear reasons of why they're wrong. Most of them hurt other people; stealing deprives people of their things, murder is obviously bad, and lying is making/attempting to make people believe something that just isn't true. Others involve dishonoring God, such as taking His name in vain.

But my lust isn't hurting anybody. I'm not trying to argue that it isn't a sin, because it's kinda written down in black and white that it is. I just figure that maybe if my mind was given some sort of rationale as to why it's wrong, it might be easier to fight it. I've heard the old argument that "it's selfish, doesn't help anybody, and it only bring yourself pleasure", but I just don't get that. A million other things out there are just selfish and don't help anybody, such as watching tv, playing videogames, just chilling, etc. yet they aren't condemned by churches.

What makes this especially hard is that I'm joining the Catholic church. They expressly state that not only is masturbation a sin, but a grave one (I specified Catholic because I know some Christians from other denominations see nothing wrong with masturbation as long as you aren't lustful-thin ice, but that's what some believe). The more I go without the release, the more lustful my thoughts become. Any tips on how to stop masturbating? Not to sound silly, but I didn't think this possible for a man to stop this, given how so many secular sources point out how natural it is.

Just so I'm clear, it is not my intention to argue against God, the Bible, or the church.

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Re: Lust and sin

#2

Post by Echoside » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:00 pm

I'm not really a christian, so if anything I say is directly opposed to scriptures I'd be glad for someone to point it out.

But here's my take on it. Is lust a sin? Sure, and I can see how. It promotes evil, immoral thoughts, desires and many other things. Now, these desires may be natural, but reveling in them rather than banishing them from your mind will only stem real growth in all things good. Your lust might not be hurting other people, but can you honestly say it hasn't negatively affected you?

This brings us to masturbation. It seems to me that this being a sin is more of a "guilty by association" type deal. For how many masturbate without lustful thoughts? Is it even possible? If it is, doing so might not be bad, but this is probably a rare occurence.

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Re: Lust and sin

#3

Post by Gman » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:03 pm

believ3r wrote:I've spent a few years not really worshipping God, and I realize that was a mistake and now I'm trying to change all of that. I'm finding that some parts of coming back are easier than others. Predictably, the hardest part is fighting my lust drive. Don't get me wrong, I don't sleep around, still a virgin. My lust sin mostly takes the form of, to be blunt, porn and masturbation.

I'm having trouble fighting the sin of lust. It just feels so good, and it's naturally part of my biology to want women. One of the big parts about the struggle is that it doesn't have a very clear explanation of why it's bad to lust, aside from God said not to do it. The other sins, they have clear reasons of why they're wrong. Most of them hurt other people; stealing deprives people of their things, murder is obviously bad, and lying is making/attempting to make people believe something that just isn't true. Others involve dishonoring God, such as taking His name in vain.

But my lust isn't hurting anybody. I'm not trying to argue that it isn't a sin, because it's kinda written down in black and white that it is. I just figure that maybe if my mind was given some sort of rationale as to why it's wrong, it might be easier to fight it. I've heard the old argument that "it's selfish, doesn't help anybody, and it only bring yourself pleasure", but I just don't get that. A million other things out there are just selfish and don't help anybody, such as watching tv, playing videogames, just chilling, etc. yet they aren't condemned by churches.

What makes this especially hard is that I'm joining the Catholic church. They expressly state that not only is masturbation a sin, but a grave one (I specified Catholic because I know some Christians from other denominations see nothing wrong with masturbation as long as you aren't lustful-thin ice, but that's what some believe). The more I go without the release, the more lustful my thoughts become. Any tips on how to stop masturbating? Not to sound silly, but I didn't think this possible for a man to stop this, given how so many secular sources point out how natural it is.

Just so I'm clear, it is not my intention to argue against God, the Bible, or the church.
Bottom line is that you can stop it... Lust is certainly a destroyer. It takes a few weeks to kill it, but after that your body will go back into it's natural alignment like it did before you came into puberty.

Here are some questions for you and how you can stop it.

1. Do you ever feel insecure or lack confidence about yourself? Especially around women?
2. Do you ever get's bouts of deep depression or loneliness?
3. Are you insecure about your salvation with God?
4. Do you have bouts of anger?
5. Do you ever have trouble respecting others?
6. Do you respect yourself?
7. Are you in a committed relationship? If so how close are you to your wife?

Bascially, what I found is that ALL your problems manifest themselves in lust or masturbation. When you free yourself from it, all these issues should go away. Not that you will ever not have these issues again or struggle with lust, but you can certainly diminish it to where it will have no effect on you again.

Another thing. PRAY about it. Also if you lust after women, then pray that God gives you a wife.

So if you answered yes to any of these questions and you want your life back, then stop it. Find out all the baggage that come with it, once you have identified all those things, you will WANT to change. That's it, getting yourself to WANTING to change. Not that you HAVE to, it's because you WANT to. Now that is a big difference.

If you want to PM me too, I''ll try to help... ;)
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Lust and sin

#4

Post by Gman » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:11 pm

Echoside wrote:This brings us to masturbation. It seems to me that this being a sin is more of a "guilty by association" type deal. For how many masturbate without lustful thoughts? Is it even possible? If it is, doing so might not be bad, but this is probably a rare occurence.
Bottom line is if you masturbate or view pornography on the internet or in your mind, not only do you disrespect others, but you disrespect yourself too... In other words, you HATE yourself.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Lust and sin

#5

Post by Echoside » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:21 pm

Gman wrote:
Echoside wrote:This brings us to masturbation. It seems to me that this being a sin is more of a "guilty by association" type deal. For how many masturbate without lustful thoughts? Is it even possible? If it is, doing so might not be bad, but this is probably a rare occurence.
Bottom line is if you masturbate or view pornography on the internet or in your mind, not only do you disrespect others, but you disrespect yourself too... In other words, you HATE yourself.
I completely agree, I was simply saying IF it was possible to masturbate without lustful thoughts it might not be a bad thing. If the two always go hand in hand then of course using it as an outlet to feed desire is wrong.

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Re: Lust and sin

#6

Post by Gman » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:30 pm

Echoside wrote:
Gman wrote:
Echoside wrote:This brings us to masturbation. It seems to me that this being a sin is more of a "guilty by association" type deal. For how many masturbate without lustful thoughts? Is it even possible? If it is, doing so might not be bad, but this is probably a rare occurence.
Bottom line is if you masturbate or view pornography on the internet or in your mind, not only do you disrespect others, but you disrespect yourself too... In other words, you HATE yourself.
I completely agree, I was simply saying IF it was possible to masturbate without lustful thoughts it might not be a bad thing. If the two always go hand in hand then of course using it as an outlet to feed desire is wrong.
For men I'm not sure how you could avoid using visual effects. But even if you didn't, it's still a lonely lifestyle.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Lust and sin

#7

Post by CeT-To » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:04 am

Not to hijack the attention from Believer because this topic is about him but i hope i can point out my stance for each question you raised Gman so maybe you can help us both.

1. Do you ever feel insecure or lack confidence about yourself? Especially around women? yes ( but not around women)
2. Do you ever get's bouts of deep depression or loneliness? Yes a lot
3. Are you insecure about your salvation with God? Yes
4. Do you have bouts of anger? if you are asking if i have times when i get angry at life ummm not too much :S but yes at my doings and at myself.
5. Do you ever have trouble respecting others? no i guess but i seem to be a tad mean to my sisters sometimes
6. Do you respect yourself? Nope
7. Are you in a committed relationship? If so how close are you to your wife? yes but with my gf

I have been struggling with lust for so long and recently i've been giving up. i Just said to myself " Jesus i can't take it anymore please take this lust away from me" so far nothing tho. And its been a couple of weeks too. I do masturbate less and i've watched porn only once in the course 1 year (how long i also have been a christian) but that's as far as i have gotten... i find it unbelievably hard to let this sin go .... its attraction eats away at my rational thoughts of not doing it, which then results in me being extremely down and hating myself ... its a horrific cycle. This lust doesn't even stop there it gets into my daily thinking, such as attractive women walking past me or talking to me. Bleh, im just so sick of it.
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: Lust and sin

#8

Post by believ3r » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:23 am

Echoside wrote:IBut here's my take on it. Is lust a sin? Sure, and I can see how. It promotes evil, immoral thoughts, desires and many other things.
But I don't get it. Is lust just inherently evil? How?
Now, these desires may be natural, but reveling in them rather than banishing them from your mind will only stem real growth in all things good. Your lust might not be hurting other people, but can you honestly say it hasn't negatively affected you?
I don't really so how it has affected me one way or the other. I don't see or treat women as objects if that's what you mean. I just look at vids/pictures sometimes in my off hours.
This brings us to masturbation. It seems to me that this being a sin is more of a "guilty by association" type deal. For how many masturbate without lustful thoughts? Is it even possible? If it is, doing so might not be bad, but this is probably a rare occurence.
It certainly is possible. You just kind of...do it. You don't need lustful thoughts to do the deed. But regardless, the Church is pretty clear about masturbation, with or without lust.
1. Do you ever feel insecure or lack confidence about yourself? Especially around women?
2. Do you ever get's bouts of deep depression or loneliness?
3. Are you insecure about your salvation with God?
4. Do you have bouts of anger?
5. Do you ever have trouble respecting others?
6. Do you respect yourself?
7. Are you in a committed relationship? If so how close are you to your wife?

Bascially, what I found is that ALL your problems manifest themselves in lust or masturbation. When you free yourself from it, all these issues should go away. Not that you will ever not have these issues again or struggle with lust, but you can certainly diminish it to where it will have no effect on you again.
So, you mean my masturbation/lust could be a compulsion brought about as a way for my subconcious to deal with my psychological issues? I'm not gonna lie, I do have a few.

And to answer your last question, no I am not in any kind of relationship right now, and definitely not married. (if I was married, I probably wouldn't have said I was a virgin in my first post)

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Re: Lust and sin

#9

Post by CeT-To » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:02 am

I think sin does lie in the subconscious mind which then influences our conscious mind.
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: Lust and sin

#10

Post by Gman » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:03 am

CeT-To wrote:
I have been struggling with lust for so long and recently i've been giving up. i Just said to myself " Jesus i can't take it anymore please take this lust away from me" so far nothing tho. And its been a couple of weeks too. I do masturbate less and i've watched porn only once in the course 1 year (how long i also have been a christian) but that's as far as i have gotten... i find it unbelievably hard to let this sin go .... its attraction eats away at my rational thoughts of not doing it, which then results in me being extremely down and hating myself ... its a horrific cycle. This lust doesn't even stop there it gets into my daily thinking, such as attractive women walking past me or talking to me. Bleh, im just so sick of it.
That is very honest of you CeT-To. The good news is that you can break it's spell, the bad news is that you have to get to the point where you don't want to do it anymore. Not have to do, WANT to do. As I've outlined above, it appears that it has taken it's toll on you. You are lonely and have not much respect for yourself. Do you want to break that vicious cycle and get your self confidence back? You can do it if you want to.. And believe me, you will have a joy greater than any gratification of the flesh. You will get to the point where you can truly own your happiness.. ;)
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Lust and sin

#11

Post by Gman » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:09 am

believ3r wrote: So, you mean my masturbation/lust could be a compulsion brought about as a way for my subconcious to deal with my psychological issues? I'm not gonna lie, I do have a few.
Yes... Correct.
believ3r wrote:And to answer your last question, no I am not in any kind of relationship right now, and definitely not married. (if I was married, I probably wouldn't have said I was a virgin in my first post)
Well masturbation will destroy any type of relationship you are currently in.. Trust me.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Lust and sin

#12

Post by Gman » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:09 am

CeT-To wrote:I think sin does lie in the subconscious mind which then influences our conscious mind.
Yup...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Lust and sin

#13

Post by jlay » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:35 am

I'm having trouble fighting the sin of lust. It just feels so good, and it's naturally part of my biology to want women. One of the big parts about the struggle is that it doesn't have a very clear explanation of why it's bad to lust, aside from God said not to do it.
"Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." James 1:15
Sin brings death to your fellowship with Christ. All sin originates in the mind. Maybe you've heard it referred to as the devil's playgroung? I understand that you know what the bible says. But you need to also know what you are saying. A good example is listening to you attempt to justify what you really know is wrong. In other words you are giving your feelings of pleasure more priority than the Word of God.
I don't really so how it has affected me one way or the other.
You don't see. I couldn't have put it better. At this point, because you are wrapped up in the sin, you don't see. You are blinded. Contrast this to Ce-to who has made some changes, and sees how destructive this lifestyle is to his faith. Look at how he is grieving over the same things that you wink at. Your position is that you don't see the harm. It is interesting that people who wind up in prison for stealing probably started by justifying their petty theft. People who are drug addicts probably started by justifying their casual or social use. Sounds to me like this has a hold on your life. Yes? Well, if something has control over your life, then guess who doesn't? God. God doesn't share His majesty with anyone or anything.

By watching porn you are bringing all kinds of trouble for yourself when you do finally enter a relationship. You can't even imagine. Each time you engage in this behavior you are further corrupting in your mind what a true sexual relationship should involve. Many phsych issues manifest themselves sexually.
The more I go without the release, the more lustful my thoughts become.
I assure you, you can stop it. The question is are you willing to make the response? What you feed grows, what you starve dies. Step one. Eliminate any and all access to porn or erotic material from your life. Internet, TV, etc. I'm serious. Make a fast from ANY TV or internet. Unplug the TV and move it. Do you want to stop? Do this. Regular TV is full of images that will start your mind spinning. If you look at porn on the internet, then remove your access to this temptation. Face it. You are weak. Invest yourself in God's Word daily and read the book, "Every Man's Battle."
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Lust and sin

#14

Post by Echoside » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:35 pm

believ3r wrote:
Echoside wrote:IBut here's my take on it. Is lust a sin? Sure, and I can see how. It promotes evil, immoral thoughts, desires and many other things.
But I don't get it. Is lust just inherently evil? How?
This brings us to masturbation. It seems to me that this being a sin is more of a "guilty by association" type deal. For how many masturbate without lustful thoughts? Is it even possible? If it is, doing so might not be bad, but this is probably a rare occurence.
It certainly is possible. You just kind of...do it. You don't need lustful thoughts to do the deed. But regardless, the Church is pretty clear about masturbation, with or without lust.
1. Do you believe murder is wrong? By extension, do you believe that imagining killing people and deriving pleasure from it is wrong? It doesn't matter that you aren't actually doing the act, what matters is you are pursuing the mentality of evil thoughts that bring you apart from God, when being a Christian is about seeking righteousness and walking the holy path as best you can.

2. If it is possible then I don't see where the problem is. The church set forth by man and the church set forth by Jesus/God are two different things. If 99.9% of people who masturbate (just a random fact, conventional wisdom tells us it's a majority) do so with lustful thoughts it's much easier for the vatican to simply condemn it. If you can masturbate without betraying God that seems fine, but I see the task as difficult as the cases where masturbation produces no lust are probably few and far between.

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Re: Lust and sin

#15

Post by believ3r » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:51 pm

I think I get it now. Thanks. I already made an apointment with a therapist, we'll see if that helps my issues clear up.
2. If it is possible then I don't see where the problem is. The church set forth by man and the church set forth by Jesus/God are two different things.
I disagree, but that's a different discussion.

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