What makes a person "Christian"?

Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
Enginseer
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#31

Post by Enginseer » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:49 am

While I still have not ruled out the existence of some form of god. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to follow a Christian god. It's evident that my local environment differs from a traditional Christians. Highly multi-cultural I have friends over a wide-variety of religions constantly telling me different things. All these new religions are being introduced to me at the same time as Christianity [is Catholic and Christianity different?].

Also my passion for discovery conflicts with a traditional Christian belief as well. I recently watched a documentary presented by Steven Hawkins. He outlines that based on shear maths, there has to be some kind of life form other than humans in the universe. There are even 3 potential life harboring satellites in our solar system [Earth included].

Would the existence of Aliens contradict traditional Christianity? At the moment, I think I leaning towards the existence of Aliens, so I'm interested in an outside opinion.

What if we found life forms more intelligent than us =o
Am I an Atheist? Not really.

Am I a Christian? I'd be lying if I said I were.

The truth is I don't consider myself to belong to any isms, ists or anities. Questions to the mysteries of life I can only say I do not know. Yet through insight I set out to cure my ignorance.

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#32

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:25 pm

I believe in extraterrestrials. Just not your purely physical variety. ;)
I'm not sure I see how the existence of aliens contradicts Christianity.

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The11thDr.
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#33

Post by The11thDr. » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:35 pm

I will believe in extraterrestrials when there is physical evidence.
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#34

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:51 pm

The11thDr. wrote:I will believe in extraterrestrials when there is physical evidence.
Enginseer wrote:I think I leaning towards the existence of Aliens, so I'm interested in an outside opinion.
Plenty of people have been abducted by flying saucers and subjected to scientific experiments aboard. Plenty more have witnessed strange objects flying around and there are many, many photographs of UFOs proving their existence. It is also a well-known fact that the US government is concealing evidence of a UFO crash (complete with little-green-men bodies!) that occured in the Arizona desert.

What more evidence do you need???

FL :spoop:
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#35

Post by The11thDr. » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:59 am

Are you seriously suggesting that, you believe in aliens because other people have "seen" and been "abducted" by them...what are you gullible? Those people are either fruitcakes or mistaken and the ones who are taking photographs, they are actively trying to lie. What would the US government gain from hiding the existence of aliens?

Anyway this massive sidetracking into "alien" territory is kind of a big derailment of the topic dont you think?
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#36

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:37 am

The11thDr. wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that, you believe in aliens because other people have "seen" and been "abducted" by them...what are you gullible? Those people are either fruitcakes or mistaken and the ones who are taking photographs, they are actively trying to lie. What would the US government gain from hiding the existence of aliens?

Anyway this massive sidetracking into "alien" territory is kind of a big derailment of the topic dont you think?

I have a Feeling FL was being sarcastic - though I could be wrong.

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#37

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:42 am

The11thDr. wrote:Well the old testement(the way god seems to make morality meaningless for instance) did put me off quite a lot i suppose, miricles in the new testement kind of seem really implausible to me, why go to all the trouble of making the perfect laws of nature just to break them?

I perhaps can accept(this is something in itself right?) some of the things Jesus said, but I dont think I will ever go as far as believing that he is god. I do admit I actuallyf did not read a very lot of mere christianity, maybe it gets more profound after the tiny portion of it that I did bother to read.

I guess the best you could possibly achieve is to try and convince me to be more open to the concept of god, I wouldn't like you to think that I am closed minded. If i had to choose between being comfortable or being correct, then I think that i know what i would choose.
Ok Below is a very brief list that i compiled one day of why I am a Christian. It is brief - and not in any real detail - but maybe some of these ideas will help.


God

1) Why are we here? Why is this reality here? We could have been anything — in any form of universe. It could have been Middle Earth, Krynn, Azeroth etc.. but it is this one. So why can't it be a universe where an all-powerful God created us.
2) Fine tuning. The universe is fine tuned — there are no doubts about that. We are talking about things like the strength of Gravity, the weak and strong nuclear forces, the rate of expansion, the location of our solar system — the size and position of the planets, the size of our sun and our distance away from it, the moon etc etc etc…….. We are looking at in surmountable odds against this being chance. Unless there are an infinite number of universes there can be no other reason apart from design.
3) The universe had a beginning — FACT. What created it? It needs to be an unchanging, uncaused eternal force. This is how the bible describes God.
4) The origin of life. Science has yet to show how life spontaneously arose on earth with the conditions that were present.
5) Irreducible Complexity — There are biological systems that cannot be broken down into parts, because they cease to be functional, therefore natural selection would have got rid of them a long time ago.
6) Our consciousness. We are sentient. We have an awareness of self. Is this simply an emergent property from the complexity of our brain/ Why are we seekers of something bigger than us? Why is there a God shaped hole in our life? We have eternity in our hearts and we look to see beyond our own mortality. No other species on earth has shown signs of this. Is this because we were made in Gods image?
7) The meaning of life. If the naturalistic definition of things is correct then life really has no meaning whatsoever. Our existence is futile — the laws of thermodynamics and entropy will see to that on a universal scale. Our thoughts, dreams, hopes and aspirations will all be in vein as they will die with us. All our achievements will soon be forgotten. Mankind's future is certain as the sun will eventually go nova in 5 billion years. The universe, if constantly expanding will eventually be a cold dark place as entropy takes his hold. Our future is sealed — we are all doomed.

In this universe, love is the cruellest trick of all. It is nature's biggest joke on us. We are destined to fall in love with people and see them taken away from us —never to be seen again. You might ask yourself why put yourself through all that torture. Your parents will die. Your spouse will die — your children will die. It would be better to live selfishly without any feeling for any other human being as it will bring constant heartache and pain.

Unless there is a God.

8) Miracles do happen. Maybe some might be explained away by science someday - but the testimony of miracles and NDE's cannot be ignored.

Jesus
1) He existed. The gospels are testimony to that. There are secular sources that verify his existence. Some from hostile sources.
2) He was a special man that caused a big stir. The church is a testimony to that as well as secular sources.
3) The resurrection is the only explanation for why there is a church today. The early growth of the church was down to a complete change of heart with the disciples. They were scattered, yet reformed after Jesus's death with a firm belief that he had risen. They went to their deaths claiming this fact. They were in a unique position to know whether this was a lie or not. Nobody with a reasonable mind dies for a lie.
4) Jesus rose from the dead — see above. There is also the factor of an empty tomb to contend with, plus the witnesses' accounts of the risen Jesus. The opposing authorities had ample opportunity and means to produce a body, yet they also agreed with the tomb being empty. Declaring instead that the disciples must have stolen it. If the disciples had stolen the body, do you think they would have then go on to die most horribly for this lie.
5) Jesus is God. He attested to much many times in the bible. Most of the letters of Paul state as much and these made up the early creed of the church. The council of Nicene decided on the nature of his divinity.
6) Jesus fulfilled many prophecies in the bible signalling the long awaited messiah.
7) Jesus wisdom is pure and really is the right way to live a life. If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus then there really would be heaven on earth.
8) Paul is the best witness for Jesus as he was originally hostile to him and persecuted and murdered Christians. Christ was revealed to him and him became one of the greatest theologians that ever lived.
9) If God exists — then coming down to earth will be a simple matter for him.
10) Jesus fits the profile of a loving, personal, holy and just God. Doing what he preaches by dying for his fellow man.
11) If God came to earth, his incarnation would split history right down the middle and he/she would be the most talked about man in all of humanities history

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#38

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sat May 01, 2010 5:27 pm

The11thDr. wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that, you believe in aliens because other people have "seen" and been "abducted" by them...what are you gullible? Those people are either fruitcakes or mistaken and the ones who are taking photographs, they are actively trying to lie. What would the US government gain from hiding the existence of aliens?
Silvertusk wrote:I have a Feeling FL was being sarcastic - though I could be wrong.
Oh yes! I was abducted by an Alien spaceship and taken to their home planet, Zyklon II. The ride was quite nice and they served peanuts and English beer.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#39

Post by Kurieuo » Sun May 02, 2010 4:26 am

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
The11thDr. wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that, you believe in aliens because other people have "seen" and been "abducted" by them...what are you gullible? Those people are either fruitcakes or mistaken and the ones who are taking photographs, they are actively trying to lie. What would the US government gain from hiding the existence of aliens?
Silvertusk wrote:I have a Feeling FL was being sarcastic - though I could be wrong.
Oh yes! I was abducted by an Alien spaceship and taken to their home planet, Zyklon II. The ride was quite nice and they served peanuts and English beer.

FL
Oh man... I always wanted to visit that planet! :(

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#40

Post by The11thDr. » Sun May 02, 2010 7:52 am

sounds like a fiction story to me, just like certain other fairy tales that comes to mind.
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#41

Post by Gman » Sun May 02, 2010 8:17 am

The11thDr. wrote:sounds like a fiction story to me, just like certain other fairy tales that comes to mind.
As far as aliens goes, the Bible speaks of a time where angels (called "the watchers") visited man on a daily basis. In time, however, these angels corrupted man and taught them among other things how to make weapons of war..

Anyway, if you look at the accounts, you will find that all cultures taught or believed in this at some time...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#42

Post by cslewislover » Sun May 02, 2010 1:31 pm

The11thDr. wrote:sounds like a fiction story to me, just like certain other fairy tales that comes to mind.
Are you referring to what FL wrote (which, of course, is a joke), or Christianity? Have you ever given Lee Strobel's A Case for Christ a go? Maybe you should. It's so useless to talk with people who write-off Christianity even though they haven't read the bible or at least haven't read the rational explanations as to why it's reasonable to believe in. Numerous brilliant people through time, and currently, believe Christianity is rational and reasonable. People who want to listen to the atheists, and that's all . . . well, they obviously just want to know the one side. Or, it's not important enough to them to look into it more.

There are prophecies written 1000s of years before Christ that came true with him. That's one thing to consider. People who do not want to believe that could happen, try to discredit the reliability of the old and new testaments. But both testaments are very reliable as historical documents. There are other things to consider as well. There are accounts in both the testaments that would seem to counter people's faith, yet they are included. If someone was trying to make up a religion and trying to deceive people, they wouldn't include stories that might seem to counter their argument. No, these stories make it real. I'm writing this off the top of my head, and would need to look up some things. There are many articles on the main site, of course, that one could read ;) And if something seemed wrong about them, one could ask about it.
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#43

Post by Gman » Sun May 02, 2010 2:37 pm

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote: Oh yes! I was abducted by an Alien spaceship and taken to their home planet, Zyklon II. The ride was quite nice and they served peanuts and English beer.

FL
Did you also see commander Zarrandious there? I heard he serves some beer that is out of this world.. :P
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#44

Post by The11thDr. » Sun May 02, 2010 6:11 pm

cslewislover wrote:Or, it's not important enough to them to look into it more.
Trust me, it is important enough. You will never get me to say with absolute certainty that there is no god. About reading the bible, do you ignore the nasty bit at the front or what? Because we all know who the "bad guy" is in that part of it.
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Re: What makes a person "Christian"?

#45

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sun May 02, 2010 7:02 pm

The11thDr. wrote: You will never get me to say with absolute certainty that there is no god. About reading the bible, do you ignore the nasty bit at the front or what?
So, 11thDr, ...did you ever get yourself a Bible in modern English? or are ye still figuring out retard English?

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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