blasphemy, food, holidays

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blasphemy, food, holidays

#1

Post by ratgibson » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:46 pm

from what I understand blasphemy against God is NEVER forgiven. so that would doom 98% percent of every human being to hell without a chance at salvation? who among us has never used Gods name in vain or disrespected God in some fashion?

some churches still believe in the Dietary law from Deut. and so on....however Christ later said it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles. from this what perception should I take to follow?

holidays that arent in the Bible equal damnation? Valentines Day, Easter, etc? I mean Halloween is an obvious one but the rest?

if we look at the entire course of human history and then we think about these hardcore Biblical followers, would it be fair to assume that probably only about 10 people are ever doing to actually make it into Heaven?

Ive been reading up on, watching and studying all kinds of Christian leaders interpret the Bible and say this or that I am thoroughly confused on who to believe. I cannot trust them or myself to make a sound judgment call to get it right. Based on this, even with our hopes of wisdom and discernment, I really want to know whats going on. I have been going insane lately learning about all this. I dont want to go to hell for eating shrimp.
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#2

Post by BavarianWheels » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:03 pm

.
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You're certainly not going to hell for eating shrimp! The dietary laws are not (normally) kept for salvation reasons, but for health reasons. While it is true that it's not what goes in the mouth that defiles, that doesn't remove the possibility of later complications due to continual avoidance of what makes a good diet.

Celebrating the different holidays, including Halloween, will also not damn you to hell. It's where you put the emphasis and how important you make the holiday that makes the difference on the Halloween type holidays...IMHO.

The best way to find out what you believe is to place yourself into God's word daily and ask for His guidance. He will give it to you. Don't rely on others handing you your religion to follow. You might get an Adventist on your back...then what??!! ;)
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#3

Post by obsolete » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:04 pm

Bavarian makes a great point. From my perspective, it is all about whether or not you also feel a conviction from doing certain things.

Example: I love to play video games. One of them I play online; Diablo 2. Does this change who I am as a Christian? No. If I feel convicted for playing the game, I will stop.

As far as food, I'm Jewish, I love ham, bacon, and sausage. But they are not hings that will make me unclean. It's about what is in my heart. And what is in my heart is Jesus.
Jesus died for ALL. End of story.

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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#4

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:23 pm

Several things:

1. Blasphemy against God isn't unforgivable: "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matt. 12:30-32)

The only blasphemy that won't be forgiven is against the Third Person in the Trinity. Blasphemy against the Second Person is bluntly stated to be forgivable, so it can't be against God generally. Since only blasphemy against the HS won't be forgiven, it follows that blasphemy against God (the Father) will be (or can be) forgiven.

2. Even blasphemy agains the HS being unforgivable is a notoriously difficult concept, with scholars holding a wide variety of opinions about what it means. I have my own views, but my only point here is that any person--me included--who tells you dogmatically that they have the meaning is lying, or at least terribly unstudied/ignorant.

3. As you noted, the Bible makes clear that we are no longer under the dietary laws. As a matter of fact, we are no longer under any of the Law. "Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? . . . Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son" (Gal 4:21, 28). Here, Paul is blasting the Galatians for going back under the Law, and he makes an allegory out of Sarah and Hagar and their respective children (Isaac and Ishmael). Contrary to his readers' expectations, he says that Sarah and Israel represent freedom against Hagar and Ishmael who represent the Law (against their expecations because they considered the Law a good thing; they would have considered Sarah and Isaac to represent the Law!). Thus, when Genesis says to "throw out the slave woman and her son," Paul is talking about throwing out the Law. Christians, then, are not under the law. See also Rom 6:14-15; 1 Cor 9:20-21; Gal 3:10, 25, etc.

4. With all of that said, there is a much easier way to not worry about hell anymore. I suppose you will take Jesus as authoritative on the matter:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Jesus says if you believe what God says about Him--namely "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" (John 20:31)--then because you "certify that God is true" (John 3:33) then, because of that, you HAVE (present tense) eternal life, you WILL NOT be condemned, because you HAVE CROSSED FROM (perfect past tense) death into life. You once were dead, you now are alive.

In other words, believe in Jesus--the Son of God who died and rose from the dead for your sins--and you have as a present possession eternal life. Again, to quote Jesus:

"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25-26)

Do you, ratgibson, believe Jesus? Or do you disbelieve Him? If you believe Him, He says you have everlasting life and will never be condemned. If you don't believe Him, you "are condemned already, because [you] have not believed in the name of God's One nad Only Son" (John 3:18).

Heaven and Hell isn't about what you eat. It's about what you are trusting for your salvation.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#5

Post by Cross.eyed » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:18 pm

Jac3510 wrote:Several things:

1. Blasphemy against God isn't unforgivable: "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matt. 12:30-32)

The only blasphemy that won't be forgiven is against the Third Person in the Trinity. Blasphemy against the Second Person is bluntly stated to be forgivable, so it can't be against God generally. Since only blasphemy against the HS won't be forgiven, it follows that blasphemy against God (the Father) will be (or can be) forgiven.

2. Even blasphemy agains the HS being unforgivable is a notoriously difficult concept, with scholars holding a wide variety of opinions about what it means. I have my own views, but my only point here is that any person--me included--who tells you dogmatically that they have the meaning is lying, or at least terribly unstudied/ignorant.

3. As you noted, the Bible makes clear that we are no longer under the dietary laws. As a matter of fact, we are no longer under any of the Law. "Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? . . . Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son" (Gal 4:21, 28). Here, Paul is blasting the Galatians for going back under the Law, and he makes an allegory out of Sarah and Hagar and their respective children (Isaac and Ishmael). Contrary to his readers' expectations, he says that Sarah and Israel represent freedom against Hagar and Ishmael who represent the Law (against their expecations because they considered the Law a good thing; they would have considered Sarah and Isaac to represent the Law!). Thus, when Genesis says to "throw out the slave woman and her son," Paul is talking about throwing out the Law. Christians, then, are not under the law. See also Rom 6:14-15; 1 Cor 9:20-21; Gal 3:10, 25, etc.

4. With all of that said, there is a much easier way to not worry about hell anymore. I suppose you will take Jesus as authoritative on the matter:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Jesus says if you believe what God says about Him--namely "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" (John 20:31)--then because you "certify that God is true" (John 3:33) then, because of that, you HAVE (present tense) eternal life, you WILL NOT be condemned, because you HAVE CROSSED FROM (perfect past tense) death into life. You once were dead, you now are alive.

In other words, believe in Jesus--the Son of God who died and rose from the dead for your sins--and you have as a present possession eternal life. Again, to quote Jesus:

"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25-26)

Do you, ratgibson, believe Jesus? Or do you disbelieve Him? If you believe Him, He says you have everlasting life and will never be condemned. If you don't believe Him, you "are condemned already, because [you] have not believed in the name of God's One nad Only Son" (John 3:18).

Heaven and Hell isn't about what you eat. It's about what you are trusting for your salvation.
:amen: :clap:
I am the wretch the song refers to.

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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#6

Post by ratgibson » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:38 pm

i whole heartedly believe in Jesus as the Son of God who was sent to this Earth to die for our sins. Not saying thats enough, I'm just hoping there is hope left in a sense. I was reading through the book of Acts the other night and noticed Pauls vision, I forget the chapter but God showed him a vision of all kinds of animals and whatnot and said Go, Kill and Eat. Paul replied he wouldnt do it because they were unclean and God replied it is not profane what he has made clean/acceptable (something to that degree).

Would that also lend to the Dietary law being null?

Another curious question I have about lust. It being said that you commit adultery with it. Just for clarification, they mean that about any woman NOT your wife right? Its hard to produce kids when you arent getting "in the mood" so to speak and certainly lust would be necessary for such an endeavor.

I ask alot of these questions because I wonder....who got it wrong and who has it right? What are we missing, etc?

Its strange alot of these hardcore Christians who pretty much trash everything not Godly still drive a car, have a house, and broadcast their sermons on low budget cameras on religious access channels. Being so hardcore you figure they would sell all their possessions and leave their family behind but it seems they are quite content staying at home and acting like they know whats best.

The Bible is one of the most fascinating books I have ever read in my life. Compound that with that fact I believe it to be true and its the most important book Ive ever read but will probably never truly understand.

Now if I can just get the discipline in Christ to break this stupid porn addiction.... :econfused:

I really hate it....gotta discipline myself and ask God for strength. Its been an ongoing problem for many many years. It hasnt outwardly affected anyone in my friends or family short of a couple serious viruses on some computers that werent mine but it really eats away at me inside.
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#7

Post by BavarianWheels » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:51 pm

ratgibson wrote:Would that also lend to the Dietary law being null?
As "law", yes. However it doesn't remove the facts of healthy living. There is a huge difference.
ratgibson wrote:Another curious question I have about lust. It being said that you commit adultery with it. Just for clarification, they mean that about any woman NOT your wife right? Its hard to produce kids when you arent getting "in the mood" so to speak and certainly lust would be necessary for such an endeavor.
See 1Corinthians. 7:8,9 - "...better to marry than to burn with lust" My take is that is MUST be ok to lust for your own wife. It's a healthy lust and one condoned by God.
ratgibson wrote:Now if I can just get the discipline in Christ to break this stupid porn addiction.... :econfused:

I really hate it....gotta discipline myself and ask God for strength. Its been an ongoing problem for many many years. It hasnt outwardly affected anyone in my friends or family short of a couple serious viruses on some computers that werent mine but it really eats away at me inside.
Admitting it is a step. Continue to ask for God's help. He'll give it to you.
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#8

Post by cslewislover » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:01 pm

ratgibson wrote:i whole heartedly believe in Jesus as the Son of God who was sent to this Earth to die for our sins. Not saying thats enough, I'm just hoping there is hope left in a sense. I was reading through the book of Acts the other night and noticed Pauls vision, I forget the chapter but God showed him a vision of all kinds of animals and whatnot and said Go, Kill and Eat. Paul replied he wouldnt do it because they were unclean and God replied it is not profane what he has made clean/acceptable (something to that degree).

Would that also lend to the Dietary law being null?
Yes, that is what I've heard (and it's Peter, by the way). Also in 1 Tim 4 Paul says: "For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer" (v 4). Sorry if that was given in a post already.
Another curious question I have about lust. It being said that you commit adultery with it. Just for clarification, they mean that about any woman NOT your wife right? Its hard to produce kids when you arent getting "in the mood" so to speak and certainly lust would be necessary for such an endeavor.
Yes, we're going to have sexual urges, and you're supposed to share those lovingly with your spouse. But everyone is guilty of adultery in the mind . . . it shows how sinful we are. We just can't get away from it wholey, and need Jesus' help and forgiveness.
Its strange alot of these hardcore Christians who pretty much trash everything not Godly still drive a car, have a house, and broadcast their sermons on low budget cameras on religious access channels. Being so hardcore you figure they would sell all their possessions and leave their family behind but it seems they are quite content staying at home and acting like they know whats best.
I hardly ever watch tv guys, so I'm not sure. Have you gone to church? What do you think of what pastors at churches say?
The Bible is one of the most fascinating books I have ever read in my life. Compound that with that fact I believe it to be true and its the most important book Ive ever read but will probably never truly understand.
I think our understanding is like an onion. One layer of understanding gets peeled off at a time.
Now if I can just get the discipline in Christ to break this stupid porn addiction.... :econfused:

I really hate it....gotta discipline myself and ask God for strength. Its been an ongoing problem for many many years. It hasnt outwardly affected anyone in my friends or family short of a couple serious viruses on some computers that werent mine but it really eats away at me inside.
Have you sought out any Christian sites dealing with this? And talked with any adult Christian males, perhaps pastors or others in ministry? This is a common problem. Even one of my former pastors (he's still a pastor - I mean at a church I used to go to) had a problem with this. Probably a lot of them had.
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#9

Post by ratgibson » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:21 pm

as far as churches, i have been to one so far in my infant walk with God, its a big church...nice....typical American preaching that puts down the way the country is and where it should be. then ive watched alot of others with their tv broadcasts locally and in the surrounding areas who have churches i could drive too but dont want to waste the gas on just yet. i have probably an unhealthy paranoia of the world around me and people in general so obviously that makes choosing a church hard to do. i can never tell whos in it for real and whos doing it for some other reason. little churches tend to be more judgmental and the bigger ones seem to be clubhouses. not too mention the demoninational ones i prefer to avoid.

i heard porn is a big problem among christians which is a useless statistic since its a problem for more than that. i guess its all a matter of will power. its strange....i used to do drugs, drink and so on but porn has been the hardest thing to quit. i can give up sex too no problem but porn.....stupid stupid porn. at this point im convinced its not even for sexual desire...its a mental addiction. ive cleaned up my language better since becoming born again than i have quitting my lust for porn.

thank you guys for all your feedback too by the way, i really enjoy your insights.

another question too and its kinda silly but.....with healthy living in mind....is it very Christian to raise tobacco? i live in KY and its our cash crop.....smoking is obviously bad for you. even if you raised but didnt use it...i take it thats ethically wrong in the eyes of God right since so many people are getting sick and dying from it? or if you had a job at a brewery, with all the problems that arise i really wonder how people can sleep at night putting in shifts to produce alcohol. the same with guns.

or how about self defense? we are told to turn the other cheek. but in an extreme case of lets say, some breaking into my house which by law here in KY were allowed to use deadly force, is it okay to do so Biblically? one would assume its not okay to kill someone because of the commandments but failing to act based on turning the other cheek would almost be suicide right if you knew they were intending to kill you?
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#10

Post by cslewislover » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:40 pm

ratgibson wrote:another question too and its kinda silly but.....with healthy living in mind....is it very Christian to raise tobacco? i live in KY and its our cash crop.....smoking is obviously bad for you. even if you raised but didnt use it...i take it thats ethically wrong in the eyes of God right since so many people are getting sick and dying from it? or if you had a job at a brewery, with all the problems that arise i really wonder how people can sleep at night putting in shifts to produce alcohol. the same with guns.
Personally, I wouldn't work at producing something that I knew would harm people and have no other good affect (I wouldn't raise tobacco). I qualify that since guns are used by police and by regular people for defense. And, since I like to drink wine and brandy, and sometimes other things, I really wouldn't have a problem with the manufacturing alcohol - especially if it was a quality kind that probably would not be abused.
or how about self defense? we are told to turn the other cheek. but in an extreme case of lets say, some breaking into my house which by law here in KY were allowed to use deadly force, is it okay to do so Biblically? one would assume its not okay to kill someone because of the commandments but failing to act based on turning the other cheek would almost be suicide right if you knew they were intending to kill you?
I really don't think Jesus meant for us to not defend ourselves in a dangerous situation. And we are to defend our families and others. The kill in the ten commandments I believe refers to murder, which would not include self-defense.

Maybe some others will chime in too. :)
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#11

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:49 am

Tobacco is a legal product. A Christian is still a Christian if he smokes or works in the tobacco industry. I don't have a problem with this but if you do, find another job. If you can't find another job, stop whining and get over your legalism. Ditto for alcohol.

Porn is legal as well. A Christian must follow God's Word before man's law whenever the two contradict. So, porn is to be avoided by a Christian. If you have a porn addiction, stop focusing on it! Your focusing will make it bigger and there is probably little you can do to stop it on your own, short of moving to a deserted island.

Addicere, a Latin word from which we get the word addict, means «to surrender» to a god. Any addiction can be figuratively seen as bowing to another god - a form of idolatry - which Christians are enjoined not to do. If you have an addiction, don't worry about it as that's the worst thing you can do. Give it to Jesus, stay in the Word and He will fix it, eventually...maybe. When you slip up and bow to your false god, don't worry about it. Soldier on. Jesus is your General and He who started a good work in you will carry it to completion.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#12

Post by obsolete » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:58 am

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Tobacco is a legal product. A Christian is still a Christian if he smokes or works in the tobacco industry. I don't have a problem with this but if you do, find another job. If you can't find another job, stop whining and get over your legalism. Ditto for alcohol.
Excelent point. I do know that the body is the temple and we need to be careful what we put into it. I smoke. I think that when there is the conviction of it, then it's time to quit. Not when someone in my church complains to the head pastor about it. But I also believe that if it is something that could trip up another Christian, then don't do it arounf them.
Porn is legal as well. A Christian must follow God's Word before man's law whenever the two contradict. So, porn is to be avoided by a Christian. If you have a porn addiction, stop focusing on it! Your focusing will make it bigger and there is probably little you can do to stop it on your own, short of moving to a deserted island.
If this is a huge point of weakness, remember that Christs' mercy and power are made perfect thru our weakness. Just as FL says surrender it to Christ.
Addicere, a Latin word from which we get the word addict, means «to surrender» to a god. Any addiction can be figuratively seen as bowing to another god - a form of idolatry - which Christians are enjoined not to do. If you have an addiction, don't worry about it as that's the worst thing you can do. Give it to Jesus, stay in the Word and He will fix it, eventually...maybe. When you slip up and bow to your false god, don't worry about it. Soldier on. Jesus is your General and He who started a good work in you will carry it to completion.

FL
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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#13

Post by ratgibson » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:51 pm

thank you all so much for your insights, they have been very helpful and i appreciate it more than you all realize! :D
Eyes speak louder than words.

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Re: blasphemy, food, holidays

#14

Post by rstrats » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:58 am

In Isaiah God speaks about “a rebellious people which walk in a way that is not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoke Me to anger continually to My face,” (65:2,3). One of the reasons these people provoke the Lord is because they “eat swine's flesh, and broth of unclean meat is in their pots,” (65:4).

Also, before the new heavens and new earth are established, God declares that He will consume those people “who eat swine's flesh, detestable things, and mice” (Isa.66:17). The context of this prophecy is the end times, right before the new heaven and new earth. This would certainly seem to suggest that the Lord will still expect an obedience to His dietary laws.

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