Wealth and Poverty

Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
User avatar
Jac3510
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5489
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:53 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Has liked: 137 times
Been liked: 336 times
Contact:

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#16

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:25 am

the church nor responses from God. I'm all he's got and I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination and THE HELP I'M GIVING HIM is starting to strain my finances and my marriage.
I want you to notice the part I uppercased in your words. You SHOULD help him. That's the right thing to do. In fact, if people were to do as God commanded, then no one would have any needs, because we would help one another.

Perhaps, then, God IS helping your friend--through you. And perhaps He wants to help him more--through His people. Can you blame Him, then, if His people refuse to listen? No, but God can. And He will. On Judgment Day, and those who did do as God commanded, they He will reward.

Funny thing there, isn't it . . . we spend so much time praying for God to help people when half the time His answer is to look at us and say, "OK. So help them."
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

Pauley
Acquainted Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:39 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#17

Post by Pauley » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:36 am

Jac3510 wrote:

God is vindicated. But to prove this case, God has to grant us free will. He has to let humanity run its course. He has to let the wicked have their way for now.

THAT is why the wicked prosper and the righteous suffer.



That Bites.

User avatar
Jac3510
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5489
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:53 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Has liked: 137 times
Been liked: 336 times
Contact:

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#18

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:45 am

*shrug* Tell people not to be wicked. They bite, not God.

But the good news--or the Gospel, as we call it--is that Jesus will bring an end to all of that. Whoever believes in Jesus has everlasting life, and when Judgment Day comes, they will spend all of eternity in perfect harmony with God. (John 3:16; 6:47; 20:21, etc.). The question, Pauley, if I may quote Jesus, is: "Do you believe this?" (John 11:25-26) If you do, you are "not condemned," but if you don't, you "stand condemned already because [you have] not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:18)
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

Pauley
Acquainted Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:39 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#19

Post by Pauley » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:11 am

Jac3510 wrote:
the church nor responses from God. I'm all he's got and I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination and THE HELP I'M GIVING HIM is starting to strain my finances and my marriage.
I want you to notice the part I uppercased in your words. You SHOULD help him. That's the right thing to do. In fact, if people were to do as God commanded, then no one would have any needs, because we would help one another.

Perhaps, then, God IS helping your friend--through you. And perhaps He wants to help him more--through His people. Can you blame Him, then, if His people refuse to listen? No, but God can. And He will. On Judgment Day, and those who did do as God commanded, they He will reward.

Funny thing there, isn't it . . . we spend so much time praying for God to help people when half the time His answer is to look at us and say, "OK. So help them."


So where does that leave me and my friend? Am I supposed to sacrifice my own financial health and allow my marriage tank because the church won't do what God commanded them to do? Because I am quickly reaching a point where I won't be able to give him anymore help and can't let him down like that. He's been denied disability three times and his insurance company won't give him a dime because his problems are the result of "pre-existing conditions".

Daniel
Recognized Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:09 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#20

Post by Daniel » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:11 am

If you think of things in terms of eternity, prospering or not prospering on earth for 50-60 years max is like a millisecond compared to what your eternal reward or punishment is (and the Bible does indicate that we are rewarded and punished based on our deeds in addition to our placement in heaven or hell.)

User avatar
Jac3510
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5489
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:53 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Has liked: 137 times
Been liked: 336 times
Contact:

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#21

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:15 am

Pauley wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:
the church nor responses from God. I'm all he's got and I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination and THE HELP I'M GIVING HIM is starting to strain my finances and my marriage.
I want you to notice the part I uppercased in your words. You SHOULD help him. That's the right thing to do. In fact, if people were to do as God commanded, then no one would have any needs, because we would help one another.

Perhaps, then, God IS helping your friend--through you. And perhaps He wants to help him more--through His people. Can you blame Him, then, if His people refuse to listen? No, but God can. And He will. On Judgment Day, and those who did do as God commanded, they He will reward.

Funny thing there, isn't it . . . we spend so much time praying for God to help people when half the time His answer is to look at us and say, "OK. So help them."


So where does that leave me and my friend? Am I supposed to sacrifice my own financial health and allow my marriage tank because the church won't do what God commanded them to do? Because I am quickly reaching a point where I won't be able to give him anymore help and can't let him down like that. He's been denied disability three times and his insurance company won't give him a dime because his problems are the result of "pre-existing conditions".
You can't give what you don't have to give, Pauley. I know you want to be able to help your friend. I know people in the same situation, but I simply can't do for them because I, right now, don't have the resources. So while God has commanded me to take care of my neighbor before myself, He has also commanded me to take care of my family. Your marriage comes FIRST.

I'm thrilled that you are helping your friend. More people should. His church should be there, and if they aren't, then God will take care of that. But there are also other things that you can do beyond giving your friend money. Let me give you an example of something I know of here locally:

An individual at the school where I work is from Kenya. He has lived here for the last six years without his family. He's only able to see them every 1.5 - 2 yrs. He has two more years to go before he finishes his degree and can go home. The government won't let him bring his family over here because he doesn't meet the income minimum of $20K/yr. He applied for a job as a chaplain at Emory Hospital, which would pay him $22K and let him bring his family, and they accepted him, provided that he take a thirteen week course. The problem is that he can't take the course because it is Mon-Fri, 8AM -5PM. He has to work to pay living expenses for the three months.

One of the people I know found out about the situation and offered to raise three months worth of living expenses for the man. This person did some calling around and found a church that was willing to sponsor the fund, and is now collecting $5,000 to pay this man's living expenses so that he can take the course, get the job, and bring his family over here.

I tell you that simply because I've seen how we can help people without financially burdening ourselves. Maybe you could go to your friend's church and sit down with he pastor himself. Let him know what is going on, and tell him your struggles. You can't take care of him all by yourself. You need help helping your friend. If the pastor is a halfway OK one, then he'll recognize the need and take it up with his benevolence committee, and you should be able to get some help. Get creative, but don't try to take it all on yourself. It will be the end of you.

I can tell you this much about God and His blessings. He isn't a "sugar daddy," but if you are doing something that He has called you to do, then He will provide those resources. So the old quip goes, "God will never call you where His grace will not sustain you."

God bless
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#22

Post by Gman » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:24 pm

Pauley wrote: I love my friend, we grew up together, but he is getting nothing from the government, the insurance companies, the church nor responses from God. I'm all he's got and I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination and the help I'm giving him is starting to strain my finances and my marriage. I can't keep it up nor can I turn him away.
Pauley, this is none of my business, but is he physically impaired to work? Also, have you looked for other churches that can help?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

Pauley
Acquainted Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:39 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#23

Post by Pauley » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:46 pm

Gman wrote:
Pauley wrote: I love my friend, we grew up together, but he is getting nothing from the government, the insurance companies, the church nor responses from God. I'm all he's got and I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination and the help I'm giving him is starting to strain my finances and my marriage. I can't keep it up nor can I turn him away.
Pauley, this is none of my business, but is he physically impaired to work? Also, have you looked for other churches that can help?

Yes, he is physically impaired. Due to complications from diabetes and a bad heart, his right leg had to be amputated almost two years ago. He was never officially terminated from his job so he doesn't meet the requirements for unemployment. His insurance won't lift a finger because it was all a result of pre-existing conditions. The government keeps denying him SSDI because they say he is capable of desk work. But he can't get a desk job because he is either overqualified or unqualified or the business is using one of those new efficiency models that has everybody cross trained on all the positions in the business and they'll need him to help unload a truck or sweep floors or some other weak excuse. He has gone through all of his savings and lost his house because he couldn't make the lease payments. Because he has no right leg he had to sell his car, but that money was used up long ago also. His church will do nothing but offer prayers on his behalf because they use their extra funds to buy a giant plasma screen tv for the pastor. He is now staying with me and sleeping in my daughters old room, but he and my wife don't get along and she wants him out, but I can't kick him out because he has nowhere to go nor anyone else to turn to. And if all of you who have responded are correct and we all have to wait for the end of time for these types of problems to set right, I'll be up the same creek as he is, without my wife.

Pauley
Acquainted Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:39 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#24

Post by Pauley » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:49 pm

Daniel wrote:If you think of things in terms of eternity, prospering or not prospering on earth for 50-60 years max is like a millisecond compared to what your eternal reward or punishment is (and the Bible does indicate that we are rewarded and punished based on our deeds in addition to our placement in heaven or hell.)

That's easy to say if you're not suffering any difficulties, but when your life is on the edge of ruin, you are forced to live in the here and now, which is where the poor people of this world are.

User avatar
zoegirl
Old School
Posts: 3927
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:59 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: east coast
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#25

Post by zoegirl » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:06 pm

WE live in a corrupt world. That was due to the fall...

LOok, I can understand the frustration. I live with a chronic disease...for ten years! It is really hard, especially when people do give pollyanna answers. "Oh, you must have to confess something" or "YOu really don't have faith". LOok I've heard those responses. They are just like Job's friends. You can read in the prayer request section about my struggles. I had to have a blood tranfusion earlier in the year due to my health.

I teach (also not a rich occupation) and it is at a private school (even less money). I will never have a BMW, corvette, a huge house, and as silly as it sounds, the big thing I hope for is that I could figure out a way to put a small deck on my townhouse. And the I have those medical bills from my high deductible that blow that dream into the next several years.

All of my furnishings are second-hand, from thrift shops, yard sales. I will never be able to buy a brand-new room set. I listen to my brothers and sisters talk about their new car, their new furniture, their new fill-in-the-blank and yes I get jealous. But you know what?

I am blessed. I have a relationship with Jesus. He gives me the comfort, peace and grace that I need. If I did have the money to get everything I want NOW, who's to say that I STILL wouldn't covet my brother's bigger house, or sister's new furniture. I love my job, have a disease but thank GOD I do have a relationship with Jesus. I can't imagine dealing with the sin and corruption of this world brought in by us without HIm.

You can satisfy every earthly desire and it is unending beause you will ALWAYS have the sin corrupting that satisfaction.

My recommednation to a better understanding? Read Ecclesiates and Job. They are tough but help with those tough questions.

Here is Solomon, one of the wisest men in the world and in Eclesiastes, he tries to find contentment in everything worldly and discovers that nothing under the sun provides that satisfaction, even wealth....
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#26

Post by Gman » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:27 pm

Pauley wrote:Yes, he is physically impaired. Due to complications from diabetes and a bad heart, his right leg had to be amputated almost two years ago. He was never officially terminated from his job so he doesn't meet the requirements for unemployment. His insurance won't lift a finger because it was all a result of pre-existing conditions. The government keeps denying him SSDI because they say he is capable of desk work. But he can't get a desk job because he is either overqualified or unqualified or the business is using one of those new efficiency models that has everybody cross trained on all the positions in the business and they'll need him to help unload a truck or sweep floors or some other weak excuse. He has gone through all of his savings and lost his house because he couldn't make the lease payments. Because he has no right leg he had to sell his car, but that money was used up long ago also. His church will do nothing but offer prayers on his behalf because they use their extra funds to buy a giant plasma screen tv for the pastor. He is now staying with me and sleeping in my daughters old room, but he and my wife don't get along and she wants him out, but I can't kick him out because he has nowhere to go nor anyone else to turn to. And if all of you who have responded are correct and we all have to wait for the end of time for these types of problems to set right, I'll be up the same creek as he is, without my wife.
Ok, much clearer now... That is sad. Can he type or uses computers? There are many IT jobs that offer positions at home. Two of my neighbors do this and never have to drive to work.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

Pauley
Acquainted Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:39 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#27

Post by Pauley » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:40 pm

Gman wrote:
Pauley wrote:Yes, he is physically impaired. Due to complications from diabetes and a bad heart, his right leg had to be amputated almost two years ago. He was never officially terminated from his job so he doesn't meet the requirements for unemployment. His insurance won't lift a finger because it was all a result of pre-existing conditions. The government keeps denying him SSDI because they say he is capable of desk work. But he can't get a desk job because he is either overqualified or unqualified or the business is using one of those new efficiency models that has everybody cross trained on all the positions in the business and they'll need him to help unload a truck or sweep floors or some other weak excuse. He has gone through all of his savings and lost his house because he couldn't make the lease payments. Because he has no right leg he had to sell his car, but that money was used up long ago also. His church will do nothing but offer prayers on his behalf because they use their extra funds to buy a giant plasma screen tv for the pastor. He is now staying with me and sleeping in my daughters old room, but he and my wife don't get along and she wants him out, but I can't kick him out because he has nowhere to go nor anyone else to turn to. And if all of you who have responded are correct and we all have to wait for the end of time for these types of problems to set right, I'll be up the same creek as he is, without my wife.
Ok, much clearer now... That is sad. Can he type or uses computers? There are many IT jobs that offer positions at home. Two of my neighbors do this and never have to drive to work.


He has basic computer skills, I don't know if that's something he can do or not. I'll suggest it to him for investigation and consideration.

YLTYLT
Established Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:21 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Wealth and Poverty

#28

Post by YLTYLT » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:57 pm

Maybe he could do something like this. y*-:)

I do not know the details of how she does it. But my cousins ex-wife has an answering service business that she runs from home. She answers calls for doctors of all types on their off hours. The only bad part in my opinion is she hardly ever gets to leave the house. But for her it works out, because she does not like to get out. She's a has a slight obsessive compulsive disorder. I think she makes a pretty good income. She has 3 children 2 of which are grown.

Another idea is to do Medical transcription for doctors from home as well. I think there are classes that teach this. y*-:)

But just giving money to pay bills is only a temporary solution. But if there is a plan in place that He is excited about persuing then the money necessary to implement that plan is money well placed. And when you go to a church for financial assitance explain the need and the plan. You will probably have better luck. But is the first church will not help. Do not stop there. Colonel Sanders talked to over 1000 restaurants before Dave Thomas allowed him to put his chicken in his restaurant. And now we have KFC. ;)


y[-o< y[-o< y[-o< :amen:

Post Reply