Saved... An easy way out?

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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#31

Post by JCSx2 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:29 pm

Himantolophus,

Well, all I can say is that we agree to disagree on some items. I do feel that you are pretty much a good person, but your beliefs are taking you away from the Word of God. This is the part I am referring to
Himantolophus wrote:
As long as all Christians are considered Christians, you are entitled to your opinion on the other religions. I don't agree that all of those people are doomed to Hell, but I'll leave it be.
God was quite specific on not worshiping other gods, not bowing down to idols; He even went to the extreme of having the Israelites totally destroy nations so they would not be infected with their false gods/beliefs. (NO we do not do that now that is OT; we go with the teachings of Christ which is Love one another) Even though we love one another and Love our enemies, we do not follow their religious practices. Christ has instructed us to convert all nations not to assimilate to their practices.

Matthew 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


Now if we are to teach them to observe all things that I have commanded you as Christ has said, then if they observe other practices then they are not conducting themselves in a method that will get them saved i.e. they will go to hell even though they may be nice peaceful peoples.

I will confidently surmise that we are not to take on the teachings of other religions or we will not get in to heaven. To accept Christ as our savior we must accept him and only him as our God, not Isis, or Zeus, or some Hindu god or goddess.


I would like to hear you elaborate a bit more on this, as to why you think other religions will be saved. And this is not about being “fair” and “unfair” it is about the will of God.

That in itself is another discussion “Is the Will of God Fair?”

YES due to the fact it is what our creator demands and requires of his creation. We were created for him not for ourselves; therefore we must go with his will.

That may be something you agree or disagree with, I would also like to hear you opinion on that.

Now I am not a Holier than thou, I need saving I realize it and will do what I need to do to get saved. I will not deem myself better than others, I am a sinner, and that is that.

I just don't want to see you miss the boat due to some skewed idea that logic needs to be accounted for on our level of human existence.
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#32

Post by Himantolophus » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:51 am

God was quite specific on not worshiping other gods, not bowing down to idols; He even went to the extreme of having the Israelites totally destroy nations so they would not be infected with their false gods/beliefs. (NO we do not do that now that is OT; we go with the teachings of Christ which is Love one another) Even though we love one another and Love our enemies, we do not follow their religious practices. Christ has instructed us to convert all nations not to assimilate to their practices.
I see what you mean here but I still find it "un-Godly" that these other peoples will go before God and God will send them straight to Hell. We're talking billions of people here and many of them are more devoted to their God then many Christians are! These people are not the types that I beleive are going to Hell. I think Hell is a place for people that curse God, do not believe in God, or fail to live as God tells us. Thes Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. are following a God or gods that they believe as strongly as you yourself believe in Him. It is impossible to change these people's minds. And if they die and come in front of God and see their mistake, would God hold it against them? If you don't see the Truth with your own eyes, these other religions will not accept it. And unfortunately, Death is when they see it. So wouldn't a kind and merciful God see past their human mistake (humans are error-prone, God knows this) and leave Heaven open to those who deserve it?
[I just don't want to see you miss the boat due to some skewed idea that logic needs to be accounted for on our level of human existence.
I don't think that my opinions on the fate of my fellow Man is going to effect my own salvation. If they get to go to Heaven, fine. If they go to Hell, that's a my bad on my part. :D

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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#33

Post by JCSx2 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:55 am

Himantolophus wrote:
God was quite specific on not worshiping other gods, not bowing down to idols; He even went to the extreme of having the Israelites totally destroy nations so they would not be infected with their false gods/beliefs. (NO we do not do that now that is OT; we go with the teachings of Christ which is Love one another) Even though we love one another and Love our enemies, we do not follow their religious practices. Christ has instructed us to convert all nations not to assimilate to their practices.
I see what you mean here but I still find it "un-Godly" that these other peoples will go before God and God will send them straight to Hell. We're talking billions of people here and many of them are more devoted to their God then many Christians are! These people are not the types that I beleive are going to Hell. I think Hell is a place for people that curse God, do not believe in God, or fail to live as God tells us. Thes Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. are following a God or gods that they believe as strongly as you yourself believe in Him. It is impossible to change these people's minds. And if they die and come in front of God and see their mistake, would God hold it against them? If you don't see the Truth with your own eyes, these other religions will not accept it. And unfortunately, Death is when they see it. So wouldn't a kind and merciful God see past their human mistake (humans are error-prone, God knows this) and leave Heaven open to those who deserve it?

I see what you are saying, but that is not how it works from what the Bible tells us.

God is merciful, but he is jealous, also he gave us free will. He doesn't want little robots to love him because they have to, but because they want to. Others could choose to love God but they choose to love their gods instead. Got to love God to get in to heaven, anything else is a mistake they should remedy before they die.

I do feel bad that they will not be saved because they were misled in to a pagan religion, or raised in to it from birth due to cultural influences. But that is the way it is, actually no question about that at all as far as we are taught in Christianity. All we can do on our level is to attempt to convert them, and feel bad if they do not take to it. Also we need to have FAITH that we are 100% correct; if we doubt that we are correct then we will doubt our teachings of the Bible, then doubt the word of God...see where this is leading? We must remain steadfast and strong in our Christianity, all the stuff is a package not a pick and choose buffet. (Need to eat the spinach on the plate also that is served in with our Christian meal even if you do not like it)

As for those who do not ever get to hear the word of the Lord and are not exposed to it EVER, then I hope there is something he has in store for them to fix it in order to save them, what it is I cannot even fathom, but I do hope God is forgiving enough to fix that. But I will not let it cast doubt in my belief.

All we can do is take care of ourselves and others that will listen to us; and pray for the rest.

What about the Muslims who firmly believe in their God praise their God then blow up innocent people for their God? (40 virgins seems like a pretty good bartering tool) they also fall in to the
I see what you mean here but I still find it "un-Godly" that these other peoples will go before God and God will send them straight to Hell. We're talking billions of people here and many of them are more devoted to their God then many Christians are! These people are not the types that I believe are going to Hell.
category.

They do not account for billions, but they do number in to the thousands easily. They are very hardcore in their religion for their God. Will their name be in the Book of life when they face Jesus on the Great White Throne? (I don't think they will be in the book, and correct me if I am wrong but I think you can agree with me on this)


The point I am attempting to make is we can make limitations, rules exceptions on our level as humans as far as our little consciousness goes; As far as we feel on what is right and wrong, but it is not our place to do that. We cannot even fathom why God would not accept other “good” people, and it is not our place to attempt to make exceptions well because we just cannot do that. It is Gods decision and his alone.

Bottom line we are taught what it takes to get everlasting life, others are exposed to it, if they want it they will take it, if not then God will be sad to lose them, but be lost they will be.
I don't think that my opinions on the fate of my fellow Man is going to effect my own salvation. If they get to go to Heaven, fine. If they go to Hell, that's a my bad on my part. :D
AHHHH ok, I mistake, Yes that is true for me also, for I do feel a twinge of "well why not make an exception for the "good ones"".

Peace

Jim
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#34

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:17 pm

Himantolophus wrote: I still find it "un-Godly" that these other peoples will go before God and God will send them straight to Hell. We're talking billions of people here...
You are right, Himantolophus. It is "un-Godly" to send billions of people straight to Hell. That is why - perhaps - you believe in a god that carefully weighs good deeds against bad deeds, then sends people on their way based on merit. Unfortunately, the God of the Bible says all of our righteous acts are as filthy rags.*

Do you know how the Eskimo hunt fox? They take a dagger and dip it in blood; cariboo, seal, any kind of blood. They let the blood dry, then they dip the dagger in blood again, and let it dry again. They do this over and over until the dried blood has built up to a thick crust. Then they go out to their hunting grounds and set the dagger so that it points straight up from the ground.

A fox comes along and starts licking the blood on the dagger. The fox licks & licks that dagger until he exposes the bare blade and cuts his tongue, ever so slightly at first. But as he licks, the cuts bleed more and more until he's feeding on his own blood.

The Eskimo returns and picks up his dagger and his fox.

You are that fox, Himantolophus.

In this conversation, Zoegirl, Kurieuo, FFC, Byblos, Canuckster, myself and JCSx2 have told you that you were mistaken - to no avail - it seems. We have shown you that the God of the Bible does not offer salvation on account of good deeds. All you have to do is open your Bible and read what He wrote. Why is this so difficult for you to see?

FL

*Isaiah 64:6
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#35

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:20 am

Himantolophus wrote:I see what you mean here but I still find it "un-Godly" that these other peoples will go before God and God will send them straight to Hell. We're talking billions of people here and many of them are more devoted to their God then many Christians are! These people are not the types that I beleive are going to Hell. I think Hell is a place for people that curse God, do not believe in God, or fail to live as God tells us. Thes Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. are following a God or gods that they believe as strongly as you yourself believe in Him. It is impossible to change these people's minds. And if they die and come in front of God and see their mistake, would God hold it against them? If you don't see the Truth with your own eyes, these other religions will not accept it. And unfortunately, Death is when they see it. So wouldn't a kind and merciful God see past their human mistake (humans are error-prone, God knows this) and leave Heaven open to those who deserve it?
If this is true (and I'm kind of jumping in here not having read everything in this thread) then there is absolutely no reason for anyone (Christian) to go out and even mention the name of Jesus. It is better to leave the "un-Godly", un-Godly.

You mention "them" coming in front of God and see their mistake. Wouldn't this be true of just about EVERY single human that has ever lived? Coming in front of the God of the Universe and Him pointing out your mistakes and/or proving His existence...wouldn't that change the mind of any rational person...even the hardened Atheist? As I said, if this is true...let's keep Christianity a secret from everyone. It almost guarantees everyone's salvation.

The reality is...and I believe as you do...that these people do number in the billions and billions. We are told in Rev. 20:8, "...In number they are like the sand on the seashore." The path is narrow and few find it. But wide is the path that leads to destruction.
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#36

Post by Himantolophus » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:18 pm

A fox comes along and starts licking the blood on the dagger. The fox licks & licks that dagger until he exposes the bare blade and cuts his tongue, ever so slightly at first. But as he licks, the cuts bleed more and more until he's feeding on his own blood.
what does the blood on the dagger represent exactly? I know the moral of the story there but I don't get what it all represents. I'm not getting drawn away from God by being concerned with my fellow man. I don't believe I am viotating any of the commandments by doing that?
In this conversation, Zoegirl, Kurieuo, FFC, Byblos, Canuckster, myself and JCSx2 have told you that you were mistaken - to no avail - it seems. We have shown you that the God of the Bible does not offer salvation on account of good deeds. All you have to do is open your Bible and read what He wrote. Why is this so difficult for you to see?
well, that is because I disagree with what you are saying. I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven. I also believe that you have to accept Jesus and God into your heart, just as you have been saying about a "personal relationship with God". I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world. Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want. No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants. You know it as well as anyone, if you are confident in your faith, no one can shake it. Let God be the judge, don't do that on Earth.

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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#37

Post by JCSx2 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:51 pm

well, that is because I disagree with what you are saying. I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven. I also believe that you have to accept Jesus and God into your heart, just as you have been saying about a "personal relationship with God". I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world. Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want. No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants. You know it as well as anyone, if you are confident in your faith, no one can shake it. Let God be the judge, don't do that on Earth.
We do know the first 2 commandments

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

This is not being boastful, or self-righteous, it is a command from God. If you would like I could show you many other passages from the Bible that make this known time and time again, this point on God not wanting us to worship other gods.

He does not want us to do that period, he commanded, and then makes that point repeatedly.

Being self-righteous would be like. “I do not have to listen to this because I am saved; this is for sinners not me.” But this is not being said, we all have to follow this command.

Would you like to see the other passages in the Bible where God say time and time again;

'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#38

Post by Himantolophus » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:40 pm

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
well, if you interpret this as being directed at Christians (what the Bible was written for) then I agree 100% with that. I would not EVER dare to worship Buddha or Shiva or a golden idol. I follow God 100% and praise and worship only HIM. That is what that Commandment means to me. It is directed at the believer him/herself.

That line doesn't read: "All people of the Earth must worship Me, and no other God, or else be banished to Hades"
'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
this read like the one above, I shall not take anything, no matter how beautiful or powerful, to represent God. This includes idols or false prophets. This could also refer to followers of Christianity only since I doubt a Chinese or Indian person has a Bible handy... by the way, don't all three Abrahamic religions believe in the same God? If we have to follow this all "to the T", shouldn't Jews, Christians, and Muslims all follow the same book and rules?

Funny that I could interpret that as meaning sculpture of any kind is forbidden since sculptors make images of Heaven, Earth, and water. i guess if they don't worship them they are good :D

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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#39

Post by BavarianWheels » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:50 am

JCSx2 wrote:
well, that is because I disagree with what you are saying. I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven. I also believe that you have to accept Jesus and God into your heart, just as you have been saying about a "personal relationship with God". I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world. Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want. No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants. You know it as well as anyone, if you are confident in your faith, no one can shake it. Let God be the judge, don't do that on Earth.
We do know the first 2 commandments

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

This is not being boastful, or self-righteous, it is a command from God. If you would like I could show you many other passages from the Bible that make this known time and time again, this point on God not wanting us to worship other gods.

He does not want us to do that period, he commanded, and then makes that point repeatedly.

Being self-righteous would be like. “I do not have to listen to this because I am saved; this is for sinners not me.” But this is not being said, we all have to follow this command.

Would you like to see the other passages in the Bible where God say time and time again;

'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Hey...I thought we weren't under law anymore... :wave:
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#40

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:08 pm

Himantolophus wrote:what does the blood on the dagger represent exactly? I know the moral of the story there but I don't get what it all represents.
Don't look for hidden meanings; there are none. The blood represents blood. The story is only a factual account of Inuit hunting at the turn of the last century. (...and perhaps you should read the Bible without stuffing it with your interpretations either. Some things are to be taken at face value.)
Himantolophus wrote:I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven.
Give me quotes from the Bible to support this.
Himantolophus wrote: I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven.
Give me quotes from the Bible to support this.
Himantolophus wrote:I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world.
In this conversation with you, I have supported my writing with quotes from the Bible. You have chosen to ignore these quotes.
Himantolophus wrote: Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
I am not condemning anyone. I have only been telling you what is in the Bible. You are simply taking offense to what God says.
Himantolophus wrote:The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want.
This belief is your major problem: that you think you can interpret the Bible to mean anything you want. This is an easy way out...it allows you to discredit anything the Bible says, even the most "un-interpretable"
Himantolophus wrote: No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants.
If you think the Bible can be interpreted any way you want, this is an appropriate deduction.

You really are like the fox in the Eskimo story. You have believed a lie and it will rob you of life.

FL
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#41

Post by JCSx2 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:56 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
JCSx2 wrote:
well, that is because I disagree with what you are saying. I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven. I also believe that you have to accept Jesus and God into your heart, just as you have been saying about a "personal relationship with God". I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world. Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want. No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants. You know it as well as anyone, if you are confident in your faith, no one can shake it. Let God be the judge, don't do that on Earth.
We do know the first 2 commandments

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

This is not being boastful, or self-righteous, it is a command from God. If you would like I could show you many other passages from the Bible that make this known time and time again, this point on God not wanting us to worship other gods.

He does not want us to do that period, he commanded, and then makes that point repeatedly.

Being self-righteous would be like. “I do not have to listen to this because I am saved; this is for sinners not me.” But this is not being said, we all have to follow this command.

Would you like to see the other passages in the Bible where God say time and time again;

'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Hey...I thought we weren't under law anymore... :wave:
.
.
BW, I believe we are free from most of them such as how to properly prepare a burnt offering etc....BUT,

In Matt 22:37-40 Jesus says.

37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Now in order to keep these commandments, if you follow the Ten Commandments then it is no problem to follow these, they fall in line with what Jesus was saying.

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

To do this the first there commandments are a good guide line to follow, then this is no problem here.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

then: 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

follow the rest of the commandments then you will have no problem loving your neighbor as yourself.

Also in Matt 19:17 Jesus says:

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus goes on to clarify the commandments in Matt 19:18-19

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother, and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

So this particular tidbit doesn't directly apply to this conversation, but I wanted to add it to just clarify that Jesus is reestablishing the commandments for good behavior of people.

Does this make sense?

Peace

Jim
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#42

Post by JCSx2 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:07 pm

Himantolophus wrote:
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
well, if you interpret this as being directed at Christians (what the Bible was written for) then I agree 100% with that. I would not EVER dare to worship Buddha or Shiva or a golden idol. I follow God 100% and praise and worship only HIM. That is what that Commandment means to me. It is directed at the believer him/herself.

That line doesn't read: "All people of the Earth must worship Me, and no other God, or else be banished to Hades"
'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
this read like the one above, I shall not take anything, no matter how beautiful or powerful, to represent God. This includes idols or false prophets. This could also refer to followers of Christianity only since I doubt a Chinese or Indian person has a Bible handy... by the way, don't all three Abrahamic religions believe in the same God? If we have to follow this all "to the T", shouldn't Jews, Christians, and Muslims all follow the same book and rules?

Funny that I could interpret that as meaning sculpture of any kind is forbidden since sculptors make images of Heaven, Earth, and water. i guess if they don't worship them they are good :D
How many gods do you believe there are?

Is there only one? And if so how is worshiping other false gods with all your heart get you in to the one True Gods Heaven?

Do you believe there are more than one? And if so, how is worshiping other gods going to get you in to the Kingdom of God (Christ& Holy Spirit?) The Bible already states if you worship other gods then you will be punished. You will not enter in to the Kingdom of God.

So that makes me think you don't really believe the Bible. (You already stated you can interpret it any way you want) by the way no you can't. If you interpret it in a way that does not bring GLORY to GOD then you may want to rethink it.

The arguments you are using are pretty much the same arguments I have encountered with atheists. I really do not mean to offend you but if you did not already state that you were Christian, I would mistake you for being an atheist with the though process you are using.

All I can conclude is that this process you use will eventually lead you astray from Christ and eternal life.
Definition of a Veteran. A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including his life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#43

Post by BavarianWheels » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:31 pm

JCSx2 wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:
JCSx2 wrote:
well, that is because I disagree with what you are saying. I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven. I also believe that you have to accept Jesus and God into your heart, just as you have been saying about a "personal relationship with God". I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world. Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want. No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants. You know it as well as anyone, if you are confident in your faith, no one can shake it. Let God be the judge, don't do that on Earth.
We do know the first 2 commandments

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

This is not being boastful, or self-righteous, it is a command from God. If you would like I could show you many other passages from the Bible that make this known time and time again, this point on God not wanting us to worship other gods.

He does not want us to do that period, he commanded, and then makes that point repeatedly.

Being self-righteous would be like. “I do not have to listen to this because I am saved; this is for sinners not me.” But this is not being said, we all have to follow this command.

Would you like to see the other passages in the Bible where God say time and time again;

'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Hey...I thought we weren't under law anymore... :wave:
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BW, I believe we are free from most of them such as how to properly prepare a burnt offering etc....BUT,

In Matt 22:37-40 Jesus says.

37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Now in order to keep these commandments, if you follow the Ten Commandments then it is no problem to follow these, they fall in line with what Jesus was saying.

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

To do this the first there commandments are a good guide line to follow, then this is no problem here.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

then: 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

follow the rest of the commandments then you will have no problem loving your neighbor as yourself.

Also in Matt 19:17 Jesus says:

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus goes on to clarify the commandments in Matt 19:18-19

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother, and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

So this particular tidbit doesn't directly apply to this conversation, but I wanted to add it to just clarify that Jesus is reestablishing the commandments for good behavior of people.

Does this make sense?

Peace

Jim
Clear as a bell. For my clarity...are you saying Christ reestablished the validity of all 10...or just 9?
.
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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#44

Post by JCSx2 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:33 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
JCSx2 wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:
JCSx2 wrote:
well, that is because I disagree with what you are saying. I don't think God herds all of the "mistaken" people of other religions to Hell and I do think that living and acting as God would see fit will HELP you get to Heaven. I also believe that you have to accept Jesus and God into your heart, just as you have been saying about a "personal relationship with God". I still think that saying what you all have been saying is unfair to all of the un-saved people (Christian and non-Christian) of all the world. Frankly I see this as boastful and self-righteous and arrogant to proclaim such. Who are you to judge them? I thought that was God's decision.
The point is I can interpret the Bible verses to mean just about anything I want. No one is "right" because no one really does know what God wants. You know it as well as anyone, if you are confident in your faith, no one can shake it. Let God be the judge, don't do that on Earth.
We do know the first 2 commandments

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'


TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

This is not being boastful, or self-righteous, it is a command from God. If you would like I could show you many other passages from the Bible that make this known time and time again, this point on God not wanting us to worship other gods.

He does not want us to do that period, he commanded, and then makes that point repeatedly.

Being self-righteous would be like. “I do not have to listen to this because I am saved; this is for sinners not me.” But this is not being said, we all have to follow this command.

Would you like to see the other passages in the Bible where God say time and time again;

'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Hey...I thought we weren't under law anymore... :wave:
.
.
BW, I believe we are free from most of them such as how to properly prepare a burnt offering etc....BUT,

In Matt 22:37-40 Jesus says.

37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Now in order to keep these commandments, if you follow the Ten Commandments then it is no problem to follow these, they fall in line with what Jesus was saying.

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

To do this the first there commandments are a good guide line to follow, then this is no problem here.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

then: 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

follow the rest of the commandments then you will have no problem loving your neighbor as yourself.

Also in Matt 19:17 Jesus says:

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus goes on to clarify the commandments in Matt 19:18-19

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother, and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

So this particular tidbit doesn't directly apply to this conversation, but I wanted to add it to just clarify that Jesus is reestablishing the commandments for good behavior of people.

Does this make sense?

Peace

Jim
Clear as a bell. For my clarity...are you saying Christ reestablished the validity of all 10...or just 9?
.
.
I am going with all 10 what could that hurt?
Definition of a Veteran. A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including his life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Re: Saved... An easy way out?

#45

Post by BavarianWheels » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:50 am

JCSx2 wrote:I am going with all 10 what could that hurt?
It could cause the life of the contestant. y:O2

Seriously...it's a question I think every Christian should ask him/herself. Let's say history repeats itself...(see Dan. 3 for example) in light of your above statement...would you stand in defense of all 10?

Jesus plainly tells us, His path is not without difficulty. (Matt. 5:11, Matt. 5:44, Luke 11:49, Luke 21:12, John 15:20)
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