Muslims protest Pope's visit

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Judah
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#16

Post by Judah » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:40 pm

godslove39 wrote:The muslim psche is different in the world today for many reasons and it doesn't take much to push them over the edge. It's much more unstable over their for many reasons and alot of them have to do with Israel. Now im not condemming the existance of Israel but I am saying is that to a person from the region what they see is Muslim Palestinians being occupied by Jewish Israelies who are backed by christian americans. Again, let me stress these are not my views. So they are already at a predisposition to feeling like their religion is getting for lack of a better word with out using profanity pooped on. My point is, the world looks different from the eyes of a muslim right now and it has nothing to do with what is taught in the quaran. Think of it this way, why are their never white race riots? Because the white people don't feel opressed. You generally get black race riots becuase something will trigger it like the rodney king incident that triggered the la riots. My point is their are lots of factors involved and you shouldn't blame the religion of Islam for these tendencies
Muslim reaction has everything to do with what is written in the Qu'ran. It has to do with their great sense of the superiority of Islam as a religion and ideology, and what the Qur'an teaches about Jews and Christians as kafir, and in the Qu'ranic mission to bring about universal submission to Allah - by violence if necessary.

Muslims in the Middle East are in a majority situation as regards their religion, and do not compare with minority groups elsewhere (your reference to race riots). Their religion and totalitarian ideology will not tolerate compromise, a live-and-let-live mentality, with other religions. All must submit to Allah, and if not dhimmitude is enforced until submission occurs, or else violence soon follows. Islam historically has bloody borders. Their agenda in Europe is clearly stated, and it is not one that should require us to make any excuse for the over-reaching violence of Muslim reactions.

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#17

Post by Gman » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:12 pm

godslove39 wrote:The bible also says we should stone our kids if their disrespectful but does that sum of the bible as a book?
Just an fyi, if you are referring to Exodus 21:17 here, this verse is related more to personal injury which also includes death... This verse must be read in it's context...

Here is the verse in it's context:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?bo ... version=31
No! You are judging the islamic faith. Why? What reason do you have to disrespect them? I see no love in this. I see no motivation in this. And to answer your question, I have tremendous respect for all religions which is why it troubles me you are looking down on the Islamic faith. Please, I do not wish to fight with you so I'll leave it at that
While I admit I made a mistake about a Muslim cleric "never" visiting a Christian church, for most Muslims it is taboo for them to enter a Christian Church or Jewish Synagogue because these places are places of idolatry to them. That is why I made the comment..

Also I will judge the Islamic faith or any other faith that I choose (including my own faith).. I think we should have a tremendous amount motivation in judging any faith, any belief system, including Christianity... We judge because we know there are absolutes...

Also, I may know some Muslims that will probably make it to heaven before some Christians. My point is that we stand against beliefs and principles... Not people... I would suggest you read the Quran someday as well.. Judah's website is a good place to start: http://www.visiblesoul.org/judah/blog/
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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#18

Post by godslove39 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:40 am

Judah wrote:
godslove39 wrote:The muslim psche is different in the world today for many reasons and it doesn't take much to push them over the edge. It's much more unstable over their for many reasons and alot of them have to do with Israel. Now im not condemming the existance of Israel but I am saying is that to a person from the region what they see is Muslim Palestinians being occupied by Jewish Israelies who are backed by christian americans. Again, let me stress these are not my views. So they are already at a predisposition to feeling like their religion is getting for lack of a better word with out using profanity pooped on. My point is, the world looks different from the eyes of a muslim right now and it has nothing to do with what is taught in the quaran. Think of it this way, why are their never white race riots? Because the white people don't feel opressed. You generally get black race riots becuase something will trigger it like the rodney king incident that triggered the la riots. My point is their are lots of factors involved and you shouldn't blame the religion of Islam for these tendencies
Muslim reaction has everything to do with what is written in the Qu'ran. It has to do with their great sense of the superiority of Islam as a religion and ideology, and what the Qur'an teaches about Jews and Christians as kafir, and in the Qu'ranic mission to bring about universal submission to Allah - by violence if necessary.

Muslims in the Middle East are in a majority situation as regards their religion, and do not compare with minority groups elsewhere (your reference to race riots). Their religion and totalitarian ideology will not tolerate compromise, a live-and-let-live mentality, with other religions. All must submit to Allah, and if not dhimmitude is enforced until submission occurs, or else violence soon follows. Islam historically has bloody borders. Their agenda in Europe is clearly stated, and it is not one that should require us to make any excuse for the over-reaching violence of Muslim reactions.
I guess we simply disagree on certain things. I respect your opinions and I hope I didn't offend anyone

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#19

Post by Judah » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:43 pm

It would be better if certain facts were fiction, but unfortunately they are not.

There are Muslims who truly and wholeheartedly believe that their prophet of Islam was the epitome of virtue, and they want to present an Islam that is a religion of peace and tolerance.

I welcome any attempt to live by a doctrine of real love, and most especially, the word of the One who is the God of love - the One who said that He is the way and the truth and the life. But before any Muslim can turn Islam into a religion of peace and tolerance, they first must defy their own brotherhood who show us the opposite - that Islam is a doctrine of violent hatred and intolerance. There needs to be no further denial of where this doctrine of violence originates (that is, direct from the Qu'ran and Hadith) and a holding to account of all their fellow believers who present what many westerners prefer to euphemistically call "radicalized" Islam, or fascist Islam.

Robert Spencer, in his latest book, The Truth about Muhammad, discusses why the truth about the prophet of Islam really matters.
Was Muhammad a figure of compassion and peace, or was he a violent and evil murderer, warmonger and paedophile? Spencer discusses this issue by drawing on information from solely Muslim sources, and he says that it matters greatly because…
- for if he was indeed a man of peace, one may reasonably hope that his example would become the linchpin of reform efforts in the Islamic world that would eventually roll back the influence of jihad terrorists. If he really championed democracy and equality of the sexes, one could profitably invoke his example among Muslims, who revere him as the highest example of human behavior, to work for these ideals in the Islamic world. But if the jihad terrorists are correct in invoking his example to justify their deeds, then Islamic reformers will need to initiate a respectful but searching re-evaluation of the place Muhammad occupies within Islam - a vastly more difficult undertaking.


Islam is the sum of those revelations from Muhammad (the Qur'an) plus the teachings gleaned from the life of Muhammad (the Hadith).
Exposing the truth about Muhammad reveals the truth of Islam. Excusing how Islam rubs against the rest of civilization is no act of love for either Muslim or Christian or any other.
If only these facts were not true. If only!

Pope Benedict has been resolute is his call for everyone to abandon violence, and for reciprocity in the freedom to worship according to one's chosen faith. There can surely be no objection to such a message - not unless one has another agenda for which this does not suit. His presence in Turkey was primarily a mission of furthering peace and reconciliation, intended with the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, but incidentally as later events transpired, with Muslims as well.

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#20

Post by Atticus Finch » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:02 am

Yes, because Robert Spencer is obviously nothing but an angel from the sky come to save the world from Islam!

I took one look at that man's photo and knew that the words from his mouth were not worth hearing. Smug and arrogant.

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#21

Post by Judah » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:02 am

That is hardly an intelligent way to judge the truth of what he writes.

Have you read his book, examined his sources, checked his references in the Qur'an and aHadith, compared what he writes with that of his peers, done any research of your own (from credible sources) and read the Qur'an and aHadith yourself?

If so, I would like to read your informed critique and own cogent and well supported arguments regarding the points that he makes - recording your emotional response to his photograph as a hint of your own bias.

C'mon Atticus, that kind of response does not do you any good service.

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