Muslims protest Pope's visit

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Muslims protest Pope's visit

#1

Post by Gman » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:04 pm

Will this ever end? This reminds me of the cartoon fiasco that is still taking months and months to resolve...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... id=2679691
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#2

Post by Judah » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:42 pm

Nope.
One of our national newspapers featured a photograph of Muslim protestors waving signs, a very large one of which read "Jesus is not the Son of God. He is a prophet of Islam." Of course it doesn't matter that a Christian might find that to be offensive - we are just swine and dogs and subhuman kafir.
It is sad, so sad. These are a badly deceived people.
I just pray that Pope Benedict will be kept safe from harm on this visit. He would be a prize target for a terrorist, and I hope that doesn't happen.

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#3

Post by godslove39 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:16 pm

Still, the pope did speak ill of their Prophet. I find it rather insinsitive of him to be visiting turkey so soon after the remarks. It'a kinda like throwing gasoline on the fire.

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#4

Post by Judah » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:27 pm

godslove39 wrote:Still, the pope did speak ill of their Prophet. I find it rather insinsitive of him to be visiting turkey so soon after the remarks. It'a kinda like throwing gasoline on the fire.
He truthfully quoted another.

Read an excellent comment here:
...{clip}... How ironic it is that Muslims in Turkey are protesting the arrival of Pope Benedict XVI on the grounds that he doesn't respect their religion.

Lost in the media coverage about anger at the Pope has been the true reason for his trip. It is not to grovel at the feet of Islamists and jihadis for daring to quote an Orthodox Christian who himself had been held hostage my Turkish Muslim invaders and whose son would one day be executed by them when they conquered Constantinople. It is not to mend fences with the Turkish, who only expect from the Pope the same tolerance from they give to Christians.

Benedict XVI was invited to Turkey by Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I (a sort of a mini-Pope) of the Greek Orthodox Church, not by any Muslim or Turkish political leader. Benedict XVI, like his predecessor Pope John Paul II, is continuing the conversation between the Eastern and Western churches that may one day heal the schism that has divided the largest and second largest bodies of Christianity for nearly 1000 years. The true purpose of his visit has been nearly ignored. Perhaps it is easier for the lazy news media to devote the most press attention to those who shout the loudest and threaten to most outrageously rather than those who pray quietly and embrace each other in Christ's love.
SOURCE ...and to continue reading.

And another comment here, second paragraph onwards.

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#5

Post by Gman » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:56 pm

godslove39 wrote:Still, the pope did speak ill of their Prophet. I find it rather insinsitive of him to be visiting turkey so soon after the remarks. It'a kinda like throwing gasoline on the fire.
The Pope had this trip to Turkey planned well before he said the remarks... Also, those remark were not his... Unfortunately certain people took things totally out of context...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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#6

Post by godslove39 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:16 pm

Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit

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#7

Post by Gman » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:26 pm

godslove39 wrote:Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit
Insensitive?? Was it also insensitive for the Pope to pray at a mosque there? Why do you think he did that?

"At the mosque, the pope removed his shoes and put on white slippers. Then he walked beside Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul. Facing the holy city of Mecca — in the tradition of Islamic worship — Cagrici said: "Now I'm going to pray." Benedict, too, bowed his head and his lips moved as if reciting words."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_ ... ope_turkey

You would NEVER find a Muslim leader do this in a Christian church....
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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#8

Post by godslove39 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:34 pm

Gman wrote:
godslove39 wrote:Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit
Insensitive?? Was it also insensitive for the Pope to pray at a mosque there? Why do you think he did that?

"At the mosque, the pope removed his shoes and put on white slippers. Then he walked beside Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul. Facing the holy city of Mecca — in the tradition of Islamic worship — Cagrici said: "Now I'm going to pray." Benedict, too, bowed his head and his lips moved as if reciting words."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_ ... ope_turkey

You would NEVER find a Muslim leader do this in a Christian church....
Do you have so little respect for muslims. They are not animals. They are people with fealing the same as you or me. You must understand their feelings and you obviosly have made no attempt to do so. And by the way

http://www.huliq.com/159/highest-rankin ... ts-armenia

Here is a muslim cleric visiting a christian church. Please do not thumb your nose at muslims becuase it is very unchristianlike. Understand them, love them. The hatred in your words is most displeasing

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#9

Post by Canuckster1127 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

godslove39 wrote:
Gman wrote:
godslove39 wrote:Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit
Insensitive?? Was it also insensitive for the Pope to pray at a mosque there? Why do you think he did that?

"At the mosque, the pope removed his shoes and put on white slippers. Then he walked beside Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul. Facing the holy city of Mecca — in the tradition of Islamic worship — Cagrici said: "Now I'm going to pray." Benedict, too, bowed his head and his lips moved as if reciting words."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_ ... ope_turkey

You would NEVER find a Muslim leader do this in a Christian church....
Do you have so little respect for muslims. They are not animals. They are people with fealing the same as you or me. You must understand their feelings and you obviosly have made no attempt to do so. And by the way

http://www.huliq.com/159/highest-rankin ... ts-armenia

Here is a muslim cleric visiting a christian church. Please do not thumb your nose at muslims becuase it is very unchristianlike. Understand them, love them. The hatred in your words is most displeasing
You'll have to show me where hate has been expressed in anything G-Man said. I think you mistake "hatred" for "disagreement."

Further, you appear to be applying a different standard to the Pope in this regard than you may be applying to others.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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#10

Post by godslove39 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:53 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:
godslove39 wrote:
Gman wrote:
godslove39 wrote:Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit
Insensitive?? Was it also insensitive for the Pope to pray at a mosque there? Why do you think he did that?

"At the mosque, the pope removed his shoes and put on white slippers. Then he walked beside Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul. Facing the holy city of Mecca — in the tradition of Islamic worship — Cagrici said: "Now I'm going to pray." Benedict, too, bowed his head and his lips moved as if reciting words."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_ ... ope_turkey

You would NEVER find a Muslim leader do this in a Christian church....
Do you have so little respect for muslims. They are not animals. They are people with fealing the same as you or me. You must understand their feelings and you obviosly have made no attempt to do so. And by the way

http://www.huliq.com/159/highest-rankin ... ts-armenia

Here is a muslim cleric visiting a christian church. Please do not thumb your nose at muslims becuase it is very unchristianlike. Understand them, love them. The hatred in your words is most displeasing
You'll have to show me where hate has been expressed in anything G-Man said. I think you mistake "hatred" for "disagreement."

Further, you appear to be applying a different standard to the Pope in this regard than you may be applying to others.
I assume his bold "NEVER" was in hate becuase it is a sweeping acusation about an entire religion based on little evidence. If it were not said in hate then it was said in general ignorance to which I gave gman the benefit of the doubt assuming he was a knowlegeable person. I found his remarks about islam to be hateful and misguided. You can't judge an entire religion so hastily.

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#11

Post by Gman » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:54 pm

godslove39 wrote:
Gman wrote:
godslove39 wrote:Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit
Insensitive?? Was it also insensitive for the Pope to pray at a mosque there? Why do you think he did that?

"At the mosque, the pope removed his shoes and put on white slippers. Then he walked beside Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul. Facing the holy city of Mecca — in the tradition of Islamic worship — Cagrici said: "Now I'm going to pray." Benedict, too, bowed his head and his lips moved as if reciting words."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_ ... ope_turkey

You would NEVER find a Muslim leader do this in a Christian church....
Do you have so little respect for muslims. They are not animals. They are people with fealing the same as you or me. You must understand their feelings and you obviosly have made no attempt to do so. And by the way

http://www.huliq.com/159/highest-rankin ... ts-armenia

Here is a muslim cleric visiting a christian church. Please do not thumb your nose at muslims becuase it is very unchristianlike. Understand them, love them. The hatred in your words is most displeasing
Where did I say that they were animals? Also have you read the Quran yet? It forbids Muslims from being friends with Christians or Jews.. Do you have any respect for other religions?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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#12

Post by godslove39 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:59 pm

Gman wrote:
godslove39 wrote:
Gman wrote:
godslove39 wrote:Whoah Whoah Whoah, I never said he planned the trip after the remarks. I know the purpose of the trip but it should have been cancelled. It reminds me of when the NRA had a conference in Littleton Colorado shortly after the Columbine Massacre. Yes it could be argued the trip was preplanned and that the NRA had nothing to do with the shootings, but come on. It's extremely insensitive. The Pope offended alot of people and visiting Turkey is just not a good move. He should have postponed it because of the emotions involved. You might not agree with their anger but you can not deny that they are angry. You must respect their fealings. Are they not human? I fail to see the logic in the popes visit
Insensitive?? Was it also insensitive for the Pope to pray at a mosque there? Why do you think he did that?

"At the mosque, the pope removed his shoes and put on white slippers. Then he walked beside Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul. Facing the holy city of Mecca — in the tradition of Islamic worship — Cagrici said: "Now I'm going to pray." Benedict, too, bowed his head and his lips moved as if reciting words."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_ ... ope_turkey

You would NEVER find a Muslim leader do this in a Christian church....
Do you have so little respect for muslims. They are not animals. They are people with fealing the same as you or me. You must understand their feelings and you obviosly have made no attempt to do so. And by the way

http://www.huliq.com/159/highest-rankin ... ts-armenia

Here is a muslim cleric visiting a christian church. Please do not thumb your nose at muslims becuase it is very unchristianlike. Understand them, love them. The hatred in your words is most displeasing
Where did I say that they were animals? Also have you read the Quran yet? It forbids Muslims from being friends with Christians or Jews.. Do you have any respect for other religions?
The bible also says we should stone our kids if their disrespectful but does that sum of the bible as a book? No! You are judging the islamic faith. Why? What reason do you have to disrespect them? I see no love in this. I see no motivation in this. And to answer your question, I have tremendous respect for all religions which is why it troubles me you are looking down on the Islamic faith. Please, I do not wish to fight with you so I'll leave it at that
Last edited by godslove39 on Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#13

Post by Judah » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:00 pm

godslove39 wrote:The hatred in your words is most displeasing
Where is there any hatred?

This is about speaking the truth. The Pope correctly quoted another, and it was taken out of context and used in an inflammatory way to incite the anger of thousands of Muslims against him.

Pope Benedict is going the extra mile in being conciliatory towards Muslims. And still people like Ali Bardakoglu (head of Turkey's Religious Affairs Directorate) make claims such as "I would like to announce that each member of Islam - a religion of peace - regrets such accusations [of Islamic violence] which are not based on any scientific fact" Source when there is considerable objective evidence to the contrary.

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#14

Post by Canuckster1127 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:08 pm

I have no doubt that many Muslims, perhaps even a majority, are decent people in secular human terms.

There are differences however in belief and practice that can be generalized between Christianity and Islam.

In general, Islam today has a far more militant faction and there are reactions to world events that are violent and spontaneous to a far greater degree than is true within Christianity.

Following the Pope's comments, which I believe were not particularly wise, but which were not hateful or intended to impugn the integrity of Islam, its leaders present or past, the response from a segment of Islam was to kill a nun by shooting her in the back, and then to destroy several Catholic Churches and missions. Is that a reflection upon all Muslims? No. But, for instance, a reasonable person could and probably should ask what Islam as a whole is doing to rein in its violent fundamentalist faction. The asking of that question as a basis upon which to draw general inferences would be legitimate I believe. Just as it would be legitimate in terms of areas of Christianity that many would admit exist.

I don't recall many instances and certainly not the same degree of frequency and degree of violence attending Christian responses to world events. Certainly not with the sanction and promotion of formal religious leaders.

Is making such an observation hateful?

Jesus made some very exclusive claims regarding himself. John 14:6 for example. One can grant basic respect and human dignity to muslims as people, without suspending judgment as to the truth of Islam and its ability to save people's souls.

What do you think?
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#15

Post by godslove39 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:21 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:I have no doubt that many Muslims, perhaps even a majority, are decent people in secular human terms.

There are differences however in belief and practice that can be generalized between Christianity and Islam.

In general, Islam today has a far more militant faction and there are reactions to world events that are violent and spontaneous to a far greater degree than is true within Christianity.

Following the Pope's comments, which I believe were not particularly wise, but which were not hateful or intended to impugn the integrity of Islam, its leaders present or past, the response from a segment of Islam was to kill a nun by shooting her in the back, and then to destroy several Catholic Churches and missions. Is that a reflection upon all Muslims? No. But, for instance, a reasonable person could and probably should ask what Islam as a whole is doing to rein in its violent fundamentalist faction. The asking of that question as a basis upon which to draw general inferences would be legitimate I believe. Just as it would be legitimate in terms of areas of Christianity that many would admit exist.

I don't recall many instances and certainly not the same degree of frequency and degree of violence attending Christian responses to world events. Certainly not with the sanction and promotion of formal religious leaders.

Is making such an observation hateful?

Jesus made some very exclusive claims regarding himself. John 14:6 for example. One can grant basic respect and human dignity to muslims as people, without suspending judgment as to the truth of Islam and its ability to save people's souls.

What do you think?
The muslim psche is different in the world today for many reasons and it doesn't take much to push them over the edge. It's much more unstable over their for many reasons and alot of them have to do with Israel. Now im not condemming the existance of Israel but I am saying is that to a person from the region what they see is Muslim Palestinians being occupied by Jewish Israelies who are backed by christian americans. Again, let me stress these are not my views. So they are already at a predisposition to feeling like their religion is getting for lack of a better word with out using profanity pooped on. My point is, the world looks different from the eyes of a muslim right now and it has nothing to do with what is taught in the quaran. Think of it this way, why are their never white race riots? Because the white people don't feel opressed. You generally get black race riots becuase something will trigger it like the rodney king incident that triggered the la riots. My point is their are lots of factors involved and you shouldn't blame the religion of Islam for these tendencies

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