revenge

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crys
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revenge

#1

Post by crys » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:05 pm

This question has been on my mind for awhile..wondering if anyone could answer me.. I would consider sending someone to hell for the rest of eternity the ultimate revenge.. if god is perfect and doesn't commit sin (revenge) then how is that he could commit the ultimate revenge

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#2

Post by Deborah » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:11 pm

it's not revenge.
If you chose to live apart from god in life, then in eternity you will also live apart from god, and knowing that there is god you are seperated from him.
If you can not follow simple instructions and learn to love your fellow man in life, which will carry through to eternal life, how can you live it in eternal life which a requirement, is to develop a love like the love god holds for us, unconditional.

We must all learn to love the person and hate the sin, we must learn the differnece between the person and the sin.

Some believe that only after death will a majority of eyes be opened, to who and what god is, and it is then that if you still ignore god that you will be cast into the lake of fire.
The word says blaspheme the holy spirit in this life or the next and it is the unforgivable sin, and you will be cast into the lake of fire.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#3

Post by Judah » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:23 pm

I had a similar question, crys, and was directed to the following article (it is actually the record of a debate) which helped me to understand the issues better: http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... dley0.html

It seems quite inconceivable that such a loving God would condemn anyone to everlasting hell, but that idea itself is a matter of perception. But as Deborah wrote, if you choose to live your life separately from God here and now, God honours your decision and allows you to maintain that separateness.
Hell is being without God. It is not so much a matter of God taking revenge, but of God honouring your choice - in other words, you condemn yourself.
But check out the linked article. It is well worth reading.

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#4

Post by Believer » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:39 pm

Deborah wrote:The word says blaspheme the holy spirit in this life or the next and it is the unforgivable sin, and you will be cast into the lake of fire.
Thank's Deborah for reminding me of what I did last year consistently in my mind and once said outloud (not in public) for 1-2 weeks all because of my stupid brain and it's illnesses. I guess I'm going to hell! :x

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#5

Post by Deborah » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:54 pm

Thinker wrote:
Deborah wrote:The word says blaspheme the holy spirit in this life or the next and it is the unforgivable sin, and you will be cast into the lake of fire.
Thank's Deborah for reminding me of what I did last year consistently in my mind and once said outloud (not in public) for 1-2 weeks all because of my stupid brain and it's illnesses. I guess I'm going to hell!
We have been through this Brain, and quite frankly I have grown tried of it, many tried to help you and you just kept bringing it back up again.
Get over it! MOVE On ! Search for the scripture that says we will not remember our lives when in eternity. If this is the case then we do not need to remember what we were like before we truly came to god!
Nor do we need to hang on to it like a crutch to remind us where we came from, so that we will never go back.
Last night I realised there was no need for me to hang onto the past, I realised I did not know God then, but i know what it is to stand in his light now, that is enough for me to never go back, so i don't need to hang onto things I did in the past as a crutch to stop me going back.

Your not the only one who is mentally ill!
We all know we can never earn Gods love or our own way to live with God in Eternity, but it is a gift from god because of his unconditional love and he has for us that he gives us mercy.
Why do you think I removed myself from msn and yahoo!
I am weak Brian, I know these things in my heart, but my mind says other things. just like you, but I do not keep bringing them back up all the time.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#6

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:35 pm

Doing otherwise would be
1) cosmic rape
2) show that God really doesn't care about our decisions and free will
3) God is creepy


to name a few problems with that idea.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
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#7

Post by Judah » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:44 pm

Well said, Deborah!
God forgives and wipes clean the slate. Why keeping going back over a slate that has nothing on it to read? Christ paid the price and now wants us to move on, not wallow in past sins.

Crys, I posted a link to this sermon called Why Would a Loving God Send People to Hell? on your other thread where you ask about the language of hell.
However, the sermon/article also responds to your question on this thread too.
The sermon references the arguments and insights of several highly regarded Christian apologist authors and is a worthwhile read.

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#8

Post by stixandstones » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:26 am

Reflecting back to the original post, I ask similar question as well, like telling people that they can not worship anyone other than him and that you should give in to his will, is that not vanity?

Or that pride is to be a sin yet what is wrong with being proud of your accomplishments?

Then again, he's God, he can say and what he wants...lol

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#9

Post by Judah » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:45 am

stixandstones wrote: Reflecting back to the original post, I ask similar question as well, like telling people that they can not worship anyone other than him and that you should give in to his will, is that not vanity?
If you believe that is the truth, then how is it vanity to share the truth with others?
However, it is always a decision that others must make for themselves. Of course they can worship anything they like, and they don't have to give in to God's will. That is their own choice.
So maybe that is not the best way to present your truth if you are telling someone that they have to do this or that.
It is a good idea to think it through a little more and be able to present the truth as you know it without trying to force it on to another.
stixandstones wrote: Or that pride is to be a sin yet what is wrong with being proud of your accomplishments?
As an artist, I don't believe it is a sin to be proud of my accomplishments provided that "to be proud" means simply that I enjoy my work and the finished product, have worked to do a good job and feel satisfied with the result, find it aesthetic, and enjoy others appreciating it too.
But it would be a sin if I started to gloat about my work, start thinking how superior I am, become all puffed up about it, and look down on the work of others. That would definitely be the sinful kind of pride.

Remember that we were created in God's image, and we therefore have an inherent ability to "create" (some say sub-create as we don't make anything out of nothing) things ourselves. It is good to appreciate any gifts or talents that God has given us, and to make use of them to give and receive pleasure, or to strive for and achieve success in meeting one's goals.
The wrong kind of pride is when you stop giving God the glory and start thinking more of yourself than of Him.
stixandstones wrote: Then again, he's God, he can say and what he wants...lol
Yep. So He can. :)

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Re: revenge

#10

Post by puritan lad » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:12 am

crys wrote:This question has been on my mind for awhile..wondering if anyone could answer me.. I would consider sending someone to hell for the rest of eternity the ultimate revenge.. if god is perfect and doesn't commit sin (revenge) then how is that he could commit the ultimate revenge
Hebrews 10:30
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”

God is the only one who has the right to be vengeful or jealous. This is why it is a sin for humans, it attempts to put humans on the throne of God.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

//covenant-theology.blogspot.com
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com/

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Re: revenge

#11

Post by Jbuza » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:25 am

crys wrote:This question has been on my mind for awhile..wondering if anyone could answer me.. I would consider sending someone to hell for the rest of eternity the ultimate revenge.. if god is perfect and doesn't commit sin (revenge) then how is that he could commit the ultimate revenge
I beleive that God created Hell for Lucifer and his angels First. I would like to know Revenge for What?

Let me give an example. If you have a pit dug in your backyard and you have some neighbor children playing around, and you warned them don't go near the pit, don't go near the pit. If one fell in the pit would you call it revenge?

Further if you had a ladder in the pit, but the child wouldn't use it, is that your fault?

God warned Man. IF you think that God is saying there send them all to hell, they think there gonna ignore my orders then to hell with them all, then you don't see God as he is. Death and Hell are the consequences of the action not a hateful God's angry judgement. God, in fact, was so disturbed by the destiny that man had chosen, that he created a way for man to escape his destiny. Jesus.

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#12

Post by Jbuza » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:31 am

Judah wrote:Well said, Deborah!
God forgives and wipes clean the slate. Why keeping going back over a slate that has nothing on it to read? Christ paid the price and now wants us to move on, not wallow in past sins.
There are spirits that are gonna keep bringing it back up so we don't forget it. But I agree, it is as far as the east is from the west, God will remember it no more.

Mark 3:29 - But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Luke 12:10 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Thinker, I don't see where it says that if one blaspheme the Holy Ghost that they will be cast in the lake of fire. The scripture in Mark indicates that salvation may still come to those who do that. The Holy Spirit is responsible for all the good in us, and is the spirit that directs the actions of Jesus. Trust these things.

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Re: revenge

#13

Post by stixandstones » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:28 pm

Let me give an example. If you have a pit dug in your backyard and you have some neighbor children playing around, and you warned them don't go near the pit, don't go near the pit. If one fell in the pit would you call it revenge?
Nice..well said
Further if you had a ladder in the pit, but the child wouldn't use it, is that your fault?
However you lost me here! Is this metaphor to suggest that once in hell God gives us a way out? If so there is little knowledge of this in the world. Perhaps I misinturpret the point, plz enlighten me!

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Re: revenge

#14

Post by Jbuza » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:01 pm

stixandstones wrote:
JBuza wrote:Let me give an example. If you have a pit dug in your backyard and you have some neighbor children playing around, and you warned them don't go near the pit, don't go near the pit. If one fell in the pit would you call it revenge.
Further if you had a ladder in the pit, but the child wouldn't use it, is that your fault?
However you lost me here! Is this metaphor to suggest that once in hell God gives us a way out? If so there is little knowledge of this in the world. Perhaps I misinturpret the point, plz enlighten me!
Thanks. I can see where that was a bit confusing. I mean that the pit is the destiny of man, that man is damned already but that rather than let man be trapped by the consequesnces of his actions, God has provided a way to get out of this destiny.

I see that the example wasn't quite right now. I didn't mean to say that Man can escape once God has passed judgement, but that God provided a way for man to escape his destiny. It was further argument that hell isn't revenge, but that God would rather that all men use the "ladder" and escape the consequences of his disobedience.

My thinking was that once we were destined for hell, i.e. once the child was trapped, that there was a way out.

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#15

Post by stixandstones » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:09 pm

Gotcha, now it makes perfect sense and I am inclined to agree with you. Although It would be nice to have a ladder out of hell...lmao

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