ISLAM In Brief

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mosa
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ISLAM In Brief

#1

Post by mosa » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:57 am

ISLAM In Brief


What is Islam:

Islâm (in Arabic) means submission to the will of Allâh and obedience to His law. Everything and every phenomenon in the world, other than man is administrated totally by Allâh-made laws. Hence, they are obedient and submissive to His laws i.e. they are in the state of Islâm. Islâm is derived from the Arabic root “Sa-li-ma” that means: peace, purity, submission and obedience.
Man possesses the inherent qualities of intelligence and choice, thus he is invited to submit to the good will of Allâh and obey His law i.e. become a Muslim.

Submission to the good will of Allâh, together with obedience to His beneficial law i.e. becoming a Muslim, is the best safeguard for man's peace and harmony.

In this sense, Islâm is the common message conveyed to Adam and to all Allâh's Prophets and Messengers, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

In its final form revealed to Allâh's last Messenger Muhammed, the message has been restored, completed and finalized.

The word “Allâh” in the Arabic Language means God, or more accurately: The One and Only Eternal God, Creator of the Universe, Lord of all lords, King of all kings, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful. The word Allâh to mean God: is also used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians as well.

good sport

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#2

Post by Jac3510 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:12 pm

That's fine and good, mosa . . . but you are aware that (according to the Scriptures), Jesus actually claimed to BE God. His first followers expressly said that He was Yahweh (in your interpretation, Allah) Himself (see John 1:1). I'm not too familiar with the Koran--I could look up the passage if need be--but I believe there is a statement there that prophets do not lie, right?

If Jesus said He was God, and He was a prophet, then He must have been speaking the truth. I've never actually had any discussions with a muslim before (I assume you're Muslim by the tone of the article? Forgive me if you aren't). I suspect there is a stock answer to this, which I would be interested to hear. In any case, what you'll find if you study the gospels is that Jesus presented Himself as God in the flesh, doing things only God could do (receiving worship, forgiving sins, healing the blind, claiming all authority, etc.). So, I'm sure you'll understand if Christians reject the claim that Jesus was "only" a prophet.

God bless

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#3

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:00 pm

I'd just like to add that Jesus also claimed to be able to forgive our sins against God, making us right before God and in this way guaranteeing our salvation through Himself.

Mohammad on the other hand states in Qur'an 46:9, 'Say, "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."' Here Allah commands Mohammad to tell people that he (Mohammed) can't give hope for what will happen to himself let alone another.

Jesus gives us hope.

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Allah not the God of the Bible

#4

Post by Anonymous » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:36 pm

Excuse me? Allah is not the God of the Bible. He is not the God who Abram and Moses worshipped and Jesus revealed. Jesus and God are ONE! The statements of sport are filled with misinformation and distortions.

Allah had only one prophet Muhammad, and he tried to reinvent scripture according to his own so-called visions. He made a mockery of the Bible and the Lord God as he revised the truth of scripture to serve his own purposes. He spread his new religion at the point of a sword, breaking treaties he had made with other tribes and killing those who would not convert to Islam. He was the very first radical and terrorist and spread his brand of religion through fear and intimidation.

I do not say these things out of hatred, but out of respect for truth. Jesus would not abide the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, and we are not obliged to tolerate distortions of His revelations. As disciples of Jesus, we need to teach and defend His commands, not allow them to be trod under foot.

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#5

Post by RGeeB » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:40 am

Islâm (in Arabic) means submission to the will of Allâh and obedience to His law. Everything and every phenomenon in the world, other than man is administrated totally by Allâh-made laws. Hence, they are obedient and submissive to His laws i.e. they are in the state of Islâm. Islâm is derived from the Arabic root “Sa-li-ma” that means: peace, purity, submission and obedience.
Man possesses the inherent qualities of intelligence and choice, thus he is invited to submit to the good will of Allâh and obey His law i.e. become a Muslim.
What is the outcome if man is submissive to the laws? What if he is not? What if he is not able to?

If I manage to keep the laws I am proud of my achievement. I have managed to attain the perfect standards set. I lose my sense of submisiveness. Is that acceptable?
Submission to the good will of Allâh, together with obedience to His beneficial law i.e. becoming a Muslim, is the best safeguard for man's peace and harmony.

In this sense, Islâm is the common message conveyed to Adam and to all Allâh's Prophets and Messengers, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

In its final form revealed to Allâh's last Messenger Muhammed, the message has been restored, completed and finalized.

The word “Allâh” in the Arabic Language means God, or more accurately: The One and Only Eternal God, Creator of the Universe, Lord of all lords, King of all kings, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful. The word Allâh to mean God: is also used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians as well.
Why would someone give laws for man to live in peace and harmony? Why would someone take an interest in humans at all? Seems like the giver also exhibits a desire to have a relationship with humans governed by emotions, chief of which is love.

I would attribute more credibility to the words of an author who would claim the source of the giver's communication, as the giver.

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Re: ISLAM In Brief

#6

Post by Anonymous » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:02 am

mosa wrote:ISLAM In Brief
What is Islam:
Islâm (in Arabic) means submission to the will of Allâh and obedience to His law. Everything and every phenomenon in the world, other than man is administrated totally by Allâh-made laws.
Biblical truth: Worldly principalities and powers of darkness are controlled by Satan, who rules the kingdoms of the world. If you obey him, you are totally deceived by his lies and condemned already because you have not believed in the Anointed One.
mosa wrote:Hence, they are obedient and submissive to His laws i.e. they are in the state of Islâm. Islâm is derived from the Arabic root “Sa-li-ma” that means: peace, purity, submission and obedience.
Biblical truth: Only Jesus, Son of God, brings peace with God, is pure and holy and completely obedient to the Father's Will. All of creation is held together by His almighty power and only He gives life to all things. The Lamb of God is the only One worthy to pass judgment, all others are impostors. Jesus will determine the end of this age.
mosa wrote:Submission to the good will of Allâh, together with obedience to His beneficial law i.e. becoming a Muslim, is the best safeguard for man's peace and harmony.
Biblical truth: Only Jesus fulfills the Law, and man will never know peace and harmony except In Christ Alone. Obedience to the Law in Christ is the only requirement for man, to love mercy and to walk humbly with God.
mosa wrote:In this sense, Islâm is the common message conveyed to Adam and to all Allâh's Prophets and Messengers, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.
Biblical truth: There is no common message except Jesus, the Living Word of God. All other messengers and messages are false.
mosa wrote:In its final form revealed to Allâh's last Messenger Muhammed, the message has been restored, completed and finalized.
Biblical truth: Allah's first and last messenger was Muhammed, and his message distorted and compromised the truth of God and the Bible. His words are deceiving and false.
mosa wrote:The word “Allâh” in the Arabic Language means God, or more accurately: The One and Only Eternal God, Creator of the Universe, Lord of all lords, King of all kings, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful. The word Allâh to mean God: is also used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians as well.
Biblical truth: Yahweh is the Lord of the Bible. Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. Elohim is God and creator of heaven and earth. Allah is not the God of the Bible, but a false deity (moon god of the Arabs) conjured up by Muhammed to support his fanatical desire to be worshipped and honored as a great prophet. The message of Muhammed is not the message from God, but a self serving, vengeful, deceitful and destructive message which enslaves those who believe it.

[/quote]

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#7

Post by RGeeB » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:49 am

Galatians 1:6-9

(Just a note for Christians arguing the case for Christ from the Koran.)

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#8

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:33 am

I like Paul's perspective:
<blockquote>"Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings." (1 Corinthians 9:19-23)</blockquote>I don't anything wrong with using a word in another language which designated "God" (i.e., "Allah"), although I would disagree with the kind of God Muslims believe.

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Koran

#9

Post by Anonymous » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:43 am

Is there a case for Christ from the Koran?

He is only another prophet by that account.

Don't get it. :?:

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#10

Post by RGeeB » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:44 am

Is there a case for Christ from the Koran?

He is only another prophet by that account.

Don't get it.
Well, a few would agree that the Koran is a counterfeit of the Christian gospel. Its subtly appeals to man's pride by removing the concept of grace, inspite of both containing a lot of similar stories and texts.

However, following K's post above and also the fact that God is capable of using anything to spread His message of salvation - I guess the Koran can be used to intially make a Muslim aware of the Christian approach.

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Re: Allah not the God of the Bible

#11

Post by The edge » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:11 am

StanMan wrote:Excuse me? Allah is not the God of the Bible. He is not the God who Abram and Moses worshipped and Jesus revealed. Jesus and God are ONE! The statements of sport are filled with misinformation and distortions.

Allah had only one prophet Muhammad, and he tried to reinvent scripture according to his own so-called visions. He made a mockery of the Bible and the Lord God as he revised the truth of scripture to serve his own purposes. He spread his new religion at the point of a sword, breaking treaties he had made with other tribes and killing those who would not convert to Islam. He was the very first radical and terrorist and spread his brand of religion through fear and intimidation.
StanMan
Sorry Stanman....Ur kind of views closed up all discussions. Put yourself in Muslim shoes & they'll feel that the Bible is corrupted since the originals manuscripts have all been lost & all we have are fragment of copies.
It's really our words against theirs.
I'll much prefer to review what the Koran says vs what our Bible says about Jesus. Let's enlighten each other on that ground.

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Re: Allah not the God of the Bible

#12

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:53 am

The edge wrote:Sorry Stanman....Ur kind of views closed up all discussions. Put yourself in Muslim shoes & they'll feel that the Bible is corrupted since the originals manuscripts have all been lost & all we have are fragment of copies.
It's really our words against theirs.
I'll much prefer to review what the Koran says vs what our Bible says about Jesus. Let's enlighten each other on that ground.
Though I can understand what you're getting at, I'd disagree it is simply "our view" vs. "theirs" as though nothing else can be said. There are facts to be dealt with on this matter, and New Testiment manuscripts are said to be 99.5% in agreement of all manuscripts, something significant considering we have over 24,000 of them.

In addition, what we have is a direct deposit from the Apostlic tradition. It would not make sense to listen to what someone supposedly said several hundred years later about Jesus, to that of sources from the same period. I'm not expecting people to just assume my own position either, rather I'd encourage anyone reading to examine the evidence for themselves, including critically examining Muhammad's relationship to the Koran.

Kurieuo.
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Re: Allah not the God of the Bible

#13

Post by The edge » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:01 am

Though I can understand what you're getting at, I'd disagree it is simply "our view" vs. "theirs" as though nothing else can be said. There are facts to be dealt with on this matter, and New Testiment manuscripts are said to be 99.5% in agreement of all manuscripts, something significant considering we have over 24,000 of them.
Kurieuo.
I cannot not agree with you. Yet, if we're addressing this issue with a Muslim, there's hardly a way for us to convince them on this ground.

I'd say..... tackle the issue on which God (or god) best represent love & concern for his creation. Which approach is more likely the route that God want man to take. Salvation in God's way or by works (just like every other religion).

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Re: Allah not the God of the Bible

#14

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:10 am

The edge wrote:I cannot not agree with you. Yet, if we're addressing this issue with a Muslim, there's hardly a way for us to convince them on this ground.
You disagree that facts don't come into play or...? I'd agree that what I said would hardly convince a Muslim, but that's not what I was trying to say. And there would be better alternatives as you point out, to present the gospel message more respectfully to them. What I am trying to say is that it isn't a matter of ones beliefs are truer because we feel they're truer, or I believe them because I'm Christian and they theirs because their Muslim (the latter is what is known as the genetic fallacy). Arguments, facts and so forth can be added into the equation and must be dealt with accordingly for a position to have any credit (and I believe Christianity has a lot going for it). Yet, whether Christian, Islamic or whatever, I believe one should test and hold onto the good (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

I think we actually might be on the same page, but a misunderstanding simply occurred.

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Re: Allah not the God of the Bible

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Post by Anonymous » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:42 am

The edge wrote:I cannot not agree with you. Yet, if we're addressing this issue with a Muslim, there's hardly a way for us to convince them on this ground.

I'd say..... tackle the issue on which God (or god) best represent love & concern for his creation. Which approach is more likely the route that God want man to take. Salvation in God's way or by works (just like every other religion).

I understand your concern for my cryptic approach, yet to approach it by your method is self defeating. Not to mention that you are not consistent. You say to tackle the issue by representing God as loving and concerned, then you claim that this is God's way and not by works.

With all due respect this is quite contradictory. By presenting your version of a loving God absent of His holiness and righteousness (wrath against sin), you have surely done that for which you criticized me. You have made God into your image of God and ignored the true nature of the God of the scriptures. You want Christians to argue with reason and diplomacy with the Muslims of the world. This is a false but popular gospel message, but I must take issue with such an approach.

I understand this is where the majority of the church is today, but the church is not a democracy, is it? And the Bible warns about apostacy in the last days. What else can explain the enthusiastic acceptance by evangelical leaders of Gibson's Passion film? It is another sign of the church falling away from sound doctrine.

Paul said always to be ready to give a sound reason for the hope within us. Our hope is founded upon the cross of Christ, the promise of the glory to come. And that glory which belongs to Christ alone is denied in Catholic doctrine. So how can we in faith and good conscience accept the false statements about Islam as credible enough to enter into debate about whose love is more Godly? Does good and evil share a common cause?

Surely this is a compromise of the gospel message. It tries to build up love by logic and not by faith. It denies the person of Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit. Paul argued always from his knowledge of God and the true gospel. His was an personal testimony in the power of God. But he never compromised in his debating. He didn't present a gospel which would be acceptable to his audience and not offend them, which is what your approach boils down to.

OK, so my approach does tend to shut off discussion. But what is the point of discussion if it doesn't lead to truth? If you can argue against my position then be my guest. But please don't tell me my argument offends the Muslim community. That argument is one of political correctness. Argue with me if I write something which is not true, but please...no PC stuff. Are we to provide answers to non-Christians which are unbiblical and inoffensive? This follows the secular demands of multiculturalism. If answers are molded and shaped so as to be inoffensive, does that help the unbelievers to understand the God of the Bible? I think not. I know I could be more diplomatic in my presentation, but not at the expense of truth.

So would you have this discussion turn into one like the culture wars? Is it politically incorrect to defend the truth if it may offend someone's cultural values? All this does is make all values relative, and the gospel truth is not a relative value. For that matter, neither is life and liberty, those inalienable rights which are a gift from God. We have drifted so far away from these precepts that we appear to be unsure of our own salvation and from whence it comes. Sometimes the truth seems like tough love. We have been taught tolerance for so many decades, and grown accustomed to tolerating such outlandish ideas and behaviors, that we have difficulty in defining where we stand on most anything.

Not that I want to be uncooperative and not follow the rules of this forum, however, so please inform me where I am violating such rules and I will be happy to adapt whatever of my ways are inappropriate. If I have taken an unbiblical position, please let me know and we can discuss it. I am only trying to present what I believe to be biblical truth. We can surely argue about the interpretation of the Bible without compromising the truth.

Peace and grace be yours,
Stan

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