weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

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jpbg33
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weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#1

Post by jpbg33 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:11 am

1Corinthians 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I read some ones comment on this verse and had to thing what is this person thinking.

He said that the man in the bible that took his fathers wife was a Christian. because the bible says " that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.".

Big mistake to assume the man was a Christian because of that statement.

Because if you assume that that statement deems him a Christian then you must also assume that the statement " To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" means that if the other Christians in that church refused to deliver him over to Satan then he would have no longer been a Christian and would have lost his salvation and went to hell.

We do not have anything to do with someone else losing salvation or keeping salvation. A persons salvation is between them and God only.

What Paul was saying was that the Christian's there needed to turn him over to Satan so that the man could see his sin and later get saved. Because if you keep convincing him he is a Christian then he may never get saved and he would die lost.

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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#2

Post by fabfusion » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:31 am

Interesting

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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#3

Post by Philip » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:18 pm

I would say that while this man has been amongst this body of believers being addressed, that by no means should it be assumed that he was a saved / true believer. Note the mechanism and the what is contrasted. I believe that the mechanism is, by allowing Satan to oppress this man's flesh, that hopefully he might learn from it (just as God let Israel suffer consequences so many times) and thus might cry out to the Lord in his misery, so that (and here's the contrast of his flesh vs. his spirit) through suffering causing him to truly seek the Lord, that He yet ("his spirit") might be saved.

Note as well, that this punishment and turning over won't necessarily turn this man around.

"5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit MAY be saved in the day of the Lord."

Of the many translations I've read of this verse, ONLY the NIV translates "MAY be saved" as "WILL be saved." Some people cry out to the Lord in their misery as they have become truly repentant of their sin AND they sincerely desire the Lord and to serve Him in obedience. Others - those that are insincere - cry out merely to have whatever affliction lifted, but they don't ALSO desire the Lord as well (Judges 10:10 references such insincere crying out to the Lord).

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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#4

Post by RickD » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:12 pm

I think the context is pretty clear, that Paul is talking about a believer.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13
1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your boasting is not good Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#5

Post by Philip » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:10 pm

I think Rick is probably right on this one.

However, he says putting this man outside from amongst them is to be done to accomplish something: "... so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." Well, the fellow is either already saved or he is not. If so, certainly he needs to repent of his sin - but if already saved, what would this banishment have to do with him being saved or not? It seems that he must suffer before he will come to grip with his sin, but that should not have anything to do with his salvation - not IF he's already saved. And if he is saved, why would Paul tie his suffering in banishment at the hand of Satan have to do with his salvation, if it had already occurred?

I need to read some commentaries on this one.

To add: Read about 5 commentaries, which I think dance around the question of why this action is explained as being undertaken "so that his spirit may be saved..."

It seems a poor word choice - perhaps in the translation? And I really hate when the vague word "may" or "might" is used in a declarative verse.

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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#6

Post by RickD » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:38 pm

I think this passage is actually a great example that we can use in a discussion about assurance of salvation. Especially to those that claim that we that believe in osas, think that since we are saved, we can go ahead and sin, because there's no punishment if we're saved.

This passage shows both assurance-"so that his spirit may be saved...",

and the duty of the church, to punish believers who do something wicked.

Remove this wicked man from having fellowship with other believers.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#7

Post by RickD » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:41 pm

Fyi,

I went ahead and edited the thread title. I changed the misspelling of weird, and added the book and chapter, for the search function in the future.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#8

Post by Philip » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:49 pm

Rick: This passage shows both assurance-"so that his spirit may be saved...",
And yet, if he was a believer, there was no "may" be saved about it! It seems to assert that somehow this correction will LEAD to him being saved. Because if he already was - and I tend to think he was already a Christian - the wording is very strange.

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Re: weird verse explanation 1 Corinthians 5

#9

Post by RickD » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:35 pm

Here's a good explanation of the verse, including what the word spirit means in this context:
The word “saved” is the Greek word sōzō (#4982 σῴζω), and it has many meanings, including to rescue from danger or destruction, to keep safe, to heal, to make whole, and to save from everlasting destruction. In this case, the evidence is that sōzō has the meaning of “to heal, to be made whole.” There are a number of reasons to come to that conclusion. The first is, as has been pointed out, that in the context the word “spirit” refers to the activities of the mind—one’s attitude, thoughts and emotions—and those things are not “saved” in the sense of being given everlasting life. One’s godly mental state can be restored, healed, or made whole, but it is the person that receives everlasting life, not a person’s mental state.
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/1 ... chapter5/5
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1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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