Caught In Hail Storm

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#16

Post by RickD » Tue May 01, 2018 6:22 pm

All kidding aside, I once had a Lays potato chip that looked like the Virgin Mary. Was that a sign?

I believe it was, because that very day I prayed the rosary, then won $20 on a scratch ticket!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#17

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed May 02, 2018 10:02 am

RickD wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:45 pm
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:42 pm
Why not? God always gives signs. God is always there with you regardless if you notice it or not.
BavarianWheels is a SDA. He's not allowed to notice signs on Saturdays.
We are allowed to do anything we wish to do...proof: The change of the Sabbath to Sunday without any word from God to do so.

In fact, we do observe at least one sign from God on Sabbath...
Exodus 31:12-18 NASB wrote: 12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13“But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14‘Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16‘So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’ 17“It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”

18When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.
Is God still LORD?
Does God still sanctify?
Does God still put to death those that profane it?
Are we not sons/daughters of Israel?
Are we not grafted into the Vine and called heirs according to the promise?
The promise to whom?
Through whom?
Was/Is not Christ an Israelite in His flesh?

Lots of signs...
.
.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#18

Post by RickD » Wed May 02, 2018 10:12 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Lots of signs...
Just don't look at them on Saturdays*.
:pound:










*until after sunset.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#19

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed May 02, 2018 10:32 am

RickD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:12 am
BavarianWheels wrote:
Lots of signs...
Just don't look at them on Saturdays*.
:pound:










*until after sunset.
I choose to.
.
.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#20

Post by mrtzur2015 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:55 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:02 am
RickD wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:45 pm
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:42 pm
Why not? God always gives signs. God is always there with you regardless if you notice it or not.
BavarianWheels is a SDA. He's not allowed to notice signs on Saturdays.
We are allowed to do anything we wish to do...proof: The change of the Sabbath to Sunday without any word from God to do so.

In fact, we do observe at least one sign from God on Sabbath...
Exodus 31:12-18 NASB wrote: 12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13“But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14‘Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16‘So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’ 17“It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”

18When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.
Is God still LORD?
Does God still sanctify?
Does God still put to death those that profane it?
Are we not sons/daughters of Israel?
Are we not grafted into the Vine and called heirs according to the promise?
The promise to whom?
Through whom?
Was/Is not Christ an Israelite in His flesh?

Lots of signs...
.
.
I disagree with the change to Sunday as well. In fact it’s not the only thing that was changed his birth wasn’t on the 25 of December. His resurrection didn’t take place on a Sunday. Etc.

As for observing the Shabbat it’s a gift. Just rest. It can be any day as we worship everyday the rules as been changed since Christ came, now we are in his body and counted righteous . It’s all about your heart now , and now what you do.
Does he still sanctefy? Does who come to him are sanctified. Etc.
He is our Shabbat our Lord our Savior our Sanctifier. Etc.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#21

Post by RickD » Wed May 02, 2018 11:36 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:32 am
RickD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:12 am
BavarianWheels wrote:
Lots of signs...
Just don't look at them on Saturdays*.
:pound:










*until after sunset.
I choose to.
.
.
Then don't come crying to me if you're excommunicated.

y:O2

Btw,

Ultimately, the sabbath laws pointed forward to Christ. He is our sabbath rest. By still trying to obey the sabbath, in essence, you are denying that Christ's finished work is efficacious. Just like those who observe Passover, which was also pointing forward to Christ.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#22

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed May 02, 2018 12:42 pm

RickD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:36 am
Ultimately, the sabbath laws pointed forward to Christ. He is our sabbath rest. By still trying to obey the sabbath, in essence, you are denying that Christ's finished work is efficacious. Just like those who observe Passover, which was also pointing forward to Christ.
There exists no Passover law in the Decalogue.

If Christ is our Sabbath rest, then God initialized the Sabbath with a lie.
Exodus 20:11 NASB wrote: ....“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
If the Sabbath pointed to Christ as our Sabbath rest ( in the context of removing the law from the Decalogue ), why then did Christ observe the Sabbath at all...and teach others to do good on the Sabbath? Why didn't Christ make a declaration that the Sabbath was never to be observed again because HE was the new Sabbath?

Do you understand anything about how laws are made and how laws are unmade? Likewise and likely more so with God, being He is omni-just. If God instituted a law ( more specifically, a set of Law, the Decalogue ) by a visible proclamation to Moses and the people at Sinai, He would have to do the same to remove that law. Christ never alluded to a removal of any law, but rather INCLUDED and/or deepened the meaning of the law to include sins of the mind and not just of physical action.

Again, I'll bet you don't apply your logic about the Sabbath to all the Law...just one in particular that you deem as "Jewish"...and so you shove it aside. My Savior is a Jew...and I am grafted into Him and so I am a spiritual Jew/Israelite and heir according to the promise.

But, I won't deny you are able to rationalize the Sabbath away...just you must do so sans any word from God.
.
.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#23

Post by mrtzur2015 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:42 pm
RickD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:36 am
Ultimately, the sabbath laws pointed forward to Christ. He is our sabbath rest. By still trying to obey the sabbath, in essence, you are denying that Christ's finished work is efficacious. Just like those who observe Passover, which was also pointing forward to Christ.
There exists no Passover law in the Decalogue.

If Christ is our Sabbath rest, then God initialized the Sabbath with a lie.
Exodus 20:11 NASB wrote: ....“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
If the Sabbath pointed to Christ as our Sabbath rest ( in the context of removing the law from the Decalogue ), why then did Christ observe the Sabbath at all...and teach others to do good on the Sabbath? Why didn't Christ make a declaration that the Sabbath was never to be observed again because HE was the new Sabbath?

Do you understand anything about how laws are made and how laws are unmade? Likewise and likely more so with God, being He is omni-just. If God instituted a law ( more specifically, a set of Law, the Decalogue ) by a visible proclamation to Moses and the people at Sinai, He would have to do the same to remove that law. Christ never alluded to a removal of any law, but rather INCLUDED and/or deepened the meaning of the law to include sins of the mind and not just of physical action.

Again, I'll bet you don't apply your logic about the Sabbath to all the Law...just one in particular that you deem as "Jewish"...and so you shove it aside. My Savior is a Jew...and I am grafted into Him and so I am a spiritual Jew/Israelite and heir according to the promise.

But, I won't deny you are able to rationalize the Sabbath away...just you must do so sans any word from God.
.
.
I disagree Shabath was a sign for the people of Israel throughout their generations. It was given as part as the mosaic laws.. Jesus is out Shabbat. He had done work in the shabath and also has said that our Father is always working and so does he.

Since the new covenant and Jesus finished work on the cross there is no need to practice the Shabbat anymore but just to remember it.

Also he did say I am the lord of the shabath therefore he’s our shabath and it’s not needed anymore.
Salvation based on faith not of works. Keeping the shabath only shows that we do not understand what Jesus has done for us.

I know a lot of people who think they still need to follow the mosaic laws (idk where they got that idea.. probably false conversion or a religious spirit in them) but that’s not the case at all. In fact the whole book Galatians proves this.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#24

Post by BavarianWheels » Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am

mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
I disagree Shabath was a sign for the people of Israel throughout their generations. It was given as part as the mosaic laws.. Jesus is out Shabbat. He had done work in the shabath and also has said that our Father is always working and so does he.
Then you disagree with scripture. Unless you think the Exodus writer lied about what God said/how God worded the commandments, God made a day holy and He says He rested...and so should we. Does that mean resting from doing good? As Christ exemplified, no. But rest from everyday work for self.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Since the new covenant and Jesus finished work on the cross there is no need to practice the Shabbat anymore but just to remember it.
There is no difference between the old and "new" covenant OTHER than one being based on a promise and the latter being based on that promise fulfilled.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Also he did say I am the lord of the shabath therefore he’s our shabath and it’s not needed anymore.
Salvation based on faith not of works. Keeping the shabath only shows that we do not understand what Jesus has done for us.
Being Lord of the Sabbath is not equivalent to replacing the Sabbath. Being Lord of a house does not make one the house.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
I know a lot of people who think they still need to follow the mosaic laws (idk where they got that idea.. probably false conversion or a religious spirit in them) but that’s not the case at all. In fact the whole book Galatians proves this.
When did God's law ever STOP pointing to righteousness? It hasn't. So while the law was put in place to point at sin, it was never the case that any person was ever saved by keeping the law. Salvation was through the promise prior to Christ and according to that promise realized through Christ, post crucifixion.

God instituted His law by a very clear manner. And without ANY word of the same clarity, you all shove it aside.

We only need to follow the law if we live according to the Spirit...which I think you'd agree the Spirit IS Righteous. Does that mean we follow the law in order to gain salvation? No. We follow because it is ( or should be ) written on our heart. Can we follow it perfectly? No. We are declared righteous according to CHRIST's perfect keeping, Christ's perfect atonement...etc. We can't keep it perfectly, but that doesn't mean that therefore we throw out one or all of it. It remains ( and always will ) as the measure of righteousness.
.
.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#25

Post by Kurieuo » Thu May 03, 2018 5:02 pm

:popcorn:

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#26

Post by mrtzur2015 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
I disagree Shabath was a sign for the people of Israel throughout their generations. It was given as part as the mosaic laws.. Jesus is out Shabbat. He had done work in the shabath and also has said that our Father is always working and so does he.
BavarianWheels wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am
Then you disagree with scripture. Unless you think the Exodus writer lied about what God said/how God worded the commandments, God made a day holy and He says He rested...and so should we. Does that mean resting from doing good? As Christ exemplified, no. But rest from everyday work for self.
i'm not gonna argue about this, there is no point arguing the bible only the Holy Spirit can change one's mind.
but i will leave this here for future reference and for others to learn for themselves and decide for themselves.

God says in exodus (10 commandments)
Exodus 20:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

therefore the commandment is about is remembering him sanctifying it.
the rest of exodus laws were given as part as the old covenant with he people of Israel (mosaic laws).
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Since the new covenant and Jesus finished work on the cross there is no need to practice the Shabbat anymore but just to remember it.
BavarianWheels wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am
There is no difference between the old and "new" covenant OTHER than one being based on a promise and the latter being based on that promise fulfilled.
NOT TRUE.
what God has given the people of Israel was work based salvation knowing the will fail and hoping they will understand
they need him for Salvation because works ain't gonna save them (all failed to keep) God has always required sacrifice for one's sin and that what Jesus was. the lamb. our lamb that was slain for us so there is no need in sacrifices anymore because he died once and for all.

so what you are basically saying that its always was this way and that Jesus didn't have to die at all. no point in his death.

we can learn that the old covenant was based on works, the new one is based on faith on the only one who can save us.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Also he did say I am the lord of the shabath therefore he’s our shabath and it’s not needed anymore.
Salvation based on faith not of works. Keeping the shabath only shows that we do not understand what Jesus has done for us.
BavarianWheels wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am
Being Lord of the Sabbath is not equivalent to replacing the Sabbath. Being Lord of a house does not make one the house.


I don't even know how to begin here.. how is this even comparable..
regardless Jesus is the Lord of all, all things created for him and hes in all the things.
and yes being the Lord of the house gives you the right to decide if this house will turn lights in shabbath or not.
AKA Lord.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm
I know a lot of people who think they still need to follow the mosaic laws (idk where they got that idea.. probably false conversion or a religious spirit in them) but that’s not the case at all. In fact the whole book Galatians proves this.
BavarianWheels wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am
When did God's law ever STOP pointing to righteousness? It hasn't. So while the law was put in place to point at sin, it was never the case that any person was ever saved by keeping the law. Salvation was through the promise prior to Christ and according to that promise realized through Christ, post crucifixion.

God instituted His law by a very clear manner. And without ANY word of the same clarity, you all shove it aside.

We only need to follow the law if we live according to the Spirit...which I think you'd agree the Spirit IS Righteous. Does that mean we follow the law in order to gain salvation? No. We follow because it is ( or should be ) written on our heart. Can we follow it perfectly? No. We are declared righteous according to CHRIST's perfect keeping, Christ's perfect atonement...etc. We can't keep it perfectly, but that doesn't mean that therefore we throw out one or all of it. It remains ( and always will ) as the measure of righteousness.
once again NOT TRUE.
Christ was the end of the law. he deliberately broke the law to show that hes above it, the laws where never important, what God judges is the heart. and therefore there is no need for the laws anymore (because if one loves their neighbor they will not steal from them, kill them, covet them etc etc).
whoever still follows the law does not understand what Christ is all about and what he has done for them.
(not saying they are not saved, this is not for me to decide).

Jesus breaking the law:
Luke 8:40-49 ( the women who touched Jesus garment and was healed, according to the law she wasn't supposed to leave her house)
Mark 3:1-6 , Luke 13:10-17 ( Jesus healing on the sabbath , and carrying ministry on the sabbath counts as work ).
Mark 2:23 ( Jesus and his disciples plucking on grain and corn fiends, which does count as work according to the law ).

Jesus gave over 100 of new laws that one should follow with the aid of the spirit , and intentionally left out the Sabbaths.

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#27

Post by RickD » Fri May 04, 2018 9:56 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:42 pm
RickD wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:36 am
Ultimately, the sabbath laws pointed forward to Christ. He is our sabbath rest. By still trying to obey the sabbath, in essence, you are denying that Christ's finished work is efficacious. Just like those who observe Passover, which was also pointing forward to Christ.
There exists no Passover law in the Decalogue.

If Christ is our Sabbath rest, then God initialized the Sabbath with a lie.
Exodus 20:11 NASB wrote: ....“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
If the Sabbath pointed to Christ as our Sabbath rest ( in the context of removing the law from the Decalogue ), why then did Christ observe the Sabbath at all...and teach others to do good on the Sabbath? Why didn't Christ make a declaration that the Sabbath was never to be observed again because HE was the new Sabbath?

Do you understand anything about how laws are made and how laws are unmade? Likewise and likely more so with God, being He is omni-just. If God instituted a law ( more specifically, a set of Law, the Decalogue ) by a visible proclamation to Moses and the people at Sinai, He would have to do the same to remove that law. Christ never alluded to a removal of any law, but rather INCLUDED and/or deepened the meaning of the law to include sins of the mind and not just of physical action.

Again, I'll bet you don't apply your logic about the Sabbath to all the Law...just one in particular that you deem as "Jewish"...and so you shove it aside. My Savior is a Jew...and I am grafted into Him and so I am a spiritual Jew/Israelite and heir according to the promise.

But, I won't deny you are able to rationalize the Sabbath away...just you must do so sans any word from God.
.
.
Is the book of Galatians left out of the SDA bible?

I suggest you reread the book, and maybe you can see that Christians are not under the law.

If you'd like me to post specific passages, I can.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Caught In Hail Storm

#28

Post by BavarianWheels » Fri May 04, 2018 11:02 am

mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
i'm not gonna argue about this, there is no point arguing the bible only the Holy Spirit can change one's mind.
but i will leave this here for future reference and for others to learn for themselves and decide for themselves.

God says in exodus (10 commandments)
Exodus 20:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

therefore the commandment is about is remembering him sanctifying it.
the rest of exodus laws were given as part as the old covenant with he people of Israel (mosaic laws).
Who's talking about the "rest" of the laws? I'm speaking specifically about the 10 God wrote with His own finger...

God said, "remember..." and then gave specific instructions on "remembering". No argument, just plain reading.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
NOT TRUE.
what God has given the people of Israel was work based salvation knowing the will fail and hoping they will understand
they need him for Salvation because works ain't gonna save them (all failed to keep) God has always required sacrifice for one's sin and that what Jesus was. the lamb. our lamb that was slain for us so there is no need in sacrifices anymore because he died once and for all.

so what you are basically saying that its always was this way and that Jesus didn't have to die at all. no point in his death.

we can learn that the old covenant was based on works, the new one is based on faith on the only one who can save us.
That's not what I'm "basically" saying. I'm saying that the old and new covenant are BOTH based on a promise...one the OT believers looked forward to and the NT believers looked at ( very few ) and us...look back upon.

It's the same manner of salvation for all...through the life, death and resurrection of the Messiah ( OT ) or Jesus ( NT and beyond ).
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
I don't even know how to begin here.. how is this even comparable..
regardless Jesus is the Lord of all, all things created for him and hes in all the things.
and yes being the Lord of the house gives you the right to decide if this house will turn lights in shabbath or not.
AKA Lord.[/qutoe]

I don't recall a mention of lights in the commandment. Do you? And Christ is not in all things. He's certainly not in my keyboard. If Christ is the Sabbath, then if one believes that the Son was the Creator mentioned in Genesis, then He simply recreated Himself and instead of resting, He Jesus'ed? Come on...follow your logic!
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
once again NOT TRUE.
Christ was the end of the law. he deliberately broke the law to show that hes above it, the laws where never important, what God judges is the heart. and therefore there is no need for the laws anymore (because if one loves their neighbor they will not steal from them, kill them, covet them etc etc).
whoever still follows the law does not understand what Christ is all about and what he has done for them.
(not saying they are not saved, this is not for me to decide).
If Christ is the end of the law, then why keep any of it? The Law ( the 10 ) point to righteousness...does it not?

We don't follow law in order to gain salvation, we follow law because that is what the SPIRIT does NATURALLY, being found righteous according to the LAW. We are freed from what the law does...and that is the law points to our sin. We are not freed from law, but rather the curse of the law...hang on a tree. ( Galatians 3:13 )
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
Jesus breaking the law:
Luke 8:40-49 ( the women who touched Jesus garment and was healed, according to the law she wasn't supposed to leave her house)
Mark 3:1-6 , Luke 13:10-17 ( Jesus healing on the sabbath , and carrying ministry on the sabbath counts as work ).
Mark 2:23 ( Jesus and his disciples plucking on grain and corn fiends, which does count as work according to the law ).

Jesus gave over 100 of new laws that one should follow with the aid of the spirit , and intentionally left out the Sabbaths.
These are ceremonial laws, not the law of the 10.

Jesus/God never prohibited healing/doing good on the Sabbath. It is the people, the Pharisees, that INTERPRETED that into God's law.

Plucking grain is not mentioned in the 10 Commandments. When will you quit going by men's tradition and READ the bible for what it does say vs. what you THINK it says?
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mrtzur2015
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Re: Caught In Hail S

#29

Post by mrtzur2015 » Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:02 am
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
i'm not gonna argue about this, there is no point arguing the bible only the Holy Spirit can change one's mind.
but i will leave this here for future reference and for others to learn for themselves and decide for themselves.

God says in exodus (10 commandments)
Exodus 20:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

therefore the commandment is about is remembering him sanctifying it.
the rest of exodus laws were given as part as the old covenant with he people of Israel (mosaic laws).
Who's talking about the "rest" of the laws? I'm speaking specifically about the 10 God wrote with His own finger...

God said, "remember..." and then gave specific instructions on "remembering". No argument, just plain reading.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
NOT TRUE.
what God has given the people of Israel was work based salvation knowing the will fail and hoping they will understand
they need him for Salvation because works ain't gonna save them (all failed to keep) God has always required sacrifice for one's sin and that what Jesus was. the lamb. our lamb that was slain for us so there is no need in sacrifices anymore because he died once and for all.

so what you are basically saying that its always was this way and that Jesus didn't have to die at all. no point in his death.

we can learn that the old covenant was based on works, the new one is based on faith on the only one who can save us.
That's not what I'm "basically" saying. I'm saying that the old and new covenant are BOTH based on a promise...one the OT believers looked forward to and the NT believers looked at ( very few ) and us...look back upon.

It's the same manner of salvation for all...through the life, death and resurrection of the Messiah ( OT ) or Jesus ( NT and beyond ).
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
I don't even know how to begin here.. how is this even comparable..
regardless Jesus is the Lord of all, all things created for him and hes in all the things.
and yes being the Lord of the house gives you the right to decide if this house will turn lights in shabbath or not.
AKA Lord.[/qutoe]

I don't recall a mention of lights in the commandment. Do you? And Christ is not in all things. He's certainly not in my keyboard. If Christ is the Sabbath, then if one believes that the Son was the Creator mentioned in Genesis, then He simply recreated Himself and instead of resting, He Jesus'ed? Come on...follow your logic!
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
once again NOT TRUE.
Christ was the end of the law. he deliberately broke the law to show that hes above it, the laws where never important, what God judges is the heart. and therefore there is no need for the laws anymore (because if one loves their neighbor they will not steal from them, kill them, covet them etc etc).
whoever still follows the law does not understand what Christ is all about and what he has done for them.
(not saying they are not saved, this is not for me to decide).
If Christ is the end of the law, then why keep any of it? The Law ( the 10 ) point to righteousness...does it not?

We don't follow law in order to gain salvation, we follow law because that is what the SPIRIT does NATURALLY, being found righteous according to the LAW. We are freed from what the law does...and that is the law points to our sin. We are not freed from law, but rather the curse of the law...hang on a tree. ( Galatians 3:13 )
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 pm
Jesus breaking the law:
Luke 8:40-49 ( the women who touched Jesus garment and was healed, according to the law she wasn't supposed to leave her house)
Mark 3:1-6 , Luke 13:10-17 ( Jesus healing on the sabbath , and carrying ministry on the sabbath counts as work ).
Mark 2:23 ( Jesus and his disciples plucking on grain and corn fiends, which does count as work according to the law ).

Jesus gave over 100 of new laws that one should follow with the aid of the spirit , and intentionally left out the Sabbaths.
These are ceremonial laws, not the law of the 10.

Jesus/God never prohibited healing/doing good on the Sabbath. It is the people, the Pharisees, that INTERPRETED that into God's law.

Plucking grain is not mentioned in the 10 Commandments. When will you quit going by men's tradition and READ the bible for what it does say vs. what you THINK it says?
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Read the Bible for what it Says?
You mix the laws when it’s convinent and when it’s jot you are not. The 10 says remember. If you go to the ceremonial laws as well it says do not work (part of the mosaic laws) what he meant by do not work was basically do not light fire because it was considered hard work back then ( had to go to the woods, cut trees , carry them, pile them , work hours to try and light it) which is why it was forbidden.
If someone has a grain fiend and he goes plucking this my friend
counts as work.



Not true at all. There was no salvation before Christ. People was counted righteous yes. But there was no heaven to go to yet and no gods family yet. People who actually read the Bible know this the dead righteous didn’t go to heaven when died during OT times.

God said remember meaning remember . There is no need to simplify it. Rest of the instructions were given as part of the mosaic law and and the old covenant.

As I said the I’m the New Testament Jesus is quoting these laws many times and leaving shabath one out on porpoise. There is no reason to ignore this. You say we “shove aside” yet you ignore the whole New Testament.

Also that is exactly what you are saying . If there was salvation during OT times Jesus has died for nothing .

There is no need for the 10 commandments today they are all included in 2 commandments. Jesus says do not me.

1. Love your God with all your heart soul and mind.
2. Love your neighbors as you love yourself.
Who are our beihboors? Everyone.
If we love one another we will not kill steal covet and all the things mentioned in the 10 commandments therefore obsolete.

As I said I didn’t come to argue the Bible. I’m sharing what I know.
I know that I can’t change your mind. But leaving this here for future reference and so that people can study on their own.


Some of Jesus commandments ( the ones the spirit naturally following)
www.earthsite.org/commandments.htm

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BavarianWheels
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Re: Caught In Hail S

#30

Post by BavarianWheels » Fri May 04, 2018 12:47 pm

mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
Read the Bible for what it Says?
You mix the laws when it’s convinent and when it’s jot you are not. The 10 says remember. If you go to the ceremonial laws as well it says do not work (part of the mosaic laws) what he meant by do not work was basically do not light fire because it was considered hard work back then ( had to go to the woods, cut trees , carry them, pile them , work hours to try and light it) which is why it was forbidden.
If someone has a grain fiend and he goes plucking this my friend
counts as work.
This abundantly shows your inability to see what was actually happening vs. what you THINK was happening. Of course it counts as work when one goes plucking grain in THEIR OWN field...to do so is to gather it for SELLING. It is the manner in which the owner makes money. However, as you, I'm sure, know, Jesus owned nothing. The disciples were PLUCKED from their manner of WORK in order to do the work of God...which paid them no salary. So when the disciples and Jesus pluck grain from a field to EAT, they are not working, but rather simply feeding themselves...against which there is no law...is there?
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
Not true at all. There was no salvation before Christ. People was counted righteous yes. But there was no heaven to go to yet and no gods family yet. People who actually read the Bible know this the dead righteous didn’t go to heaven when died during OT times.
Technically, there's no salvation after Christ either! Actual Salvation comes at death ( if one believes that at death we go to heaven, which I don't ) or at Christ's second coming ( Revelation 22:12 ). Has Christ's second coming occurred? If you're saved, then you are now immortal. Are you? We are assured of salvation through Christ and some might even allude to that as HAVING salvation, but yet if we actually HAD salvation, we wouldn't be in the body of sin, would we?
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
God said remember meaning remember . There is no need to simplify it. Rest of the instructions were given as part of the mosaic law and and the old covenant.
Wrong. The 10 are specific and separate...hence why the tablets were put into the Arc of the...the...the what?
( Revelation 11:19 - when is this seen? )
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
As I said the I’m the New Testament Jesus is quoting these laws many times and leaving shabath one out on porpoise. There is no reason to ignore this. You say we “shove aside” yet you ignore the whole New Testament.
I agree. Christ didn't mention the Sabbath in a law context. He just lived it.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
Also that is exactly what you are saying . If there was salvation during OT times Jesus has died for nothing .
It's the same salvation we have today...based on something we have FAITH in.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
There is no need for the 10 commandments today they are all included in 2 commandments. Jesus says do not me.

1. Love your God with all your heart soul and mind.
2. Love your neighbors as you love yourself.
Who are our beihboors? Everyone.
If we love one another we will not kill steal covet and all the things mentioned in the 10 commandments therefore obsolete.
The Law is SUMMED UP...the Law was never removed.

The first 4 deal with how we are to honor/love God.
The last 6 deal with how we honor/love each other.
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am
As I said I didn’t come to argue the Bible. I’m sharing what I know.
I know that I can’t change your mind. But leaving this here for future reference and so that people can study on their own.
You can't, but if you present a clear WORD from God, it will. I'm pretty sure you have nothing in scripture the likes of how God instituted the 10 to remove them as law.

You have yet to show me or anyone reading here how the 10 go from pointing at righteousness to NOT pointing at righteousness and therefore removed. ( Romans 3:20,21 Romans 7:12 ) What is removed, is the CURSE the Law brings upon anyone found to be in transgression thereof. ( Galatians 3:13 )
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