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Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:51 am
by Byblos
PaulSacramento wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:40 am
Seems to be another case of confusing what God is ( God) with the term GOD being His name or something.
I think it's a confusion of reference. When the question is asked: How could God be tempted by the devil? The normal understanding is that it is possible that God can be tempted. Obviously the answer to that is no, since temptation implies change and God is immutable. But is there in fact another frame of reference to the question? Of course there is, and that is from the point of my view of the devil who exercises his free will to tempt God, hence God was literally tempted by the devil in the unidirectional sense of attempt.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:21 pm
by Philip
ANY human's FLESH can be tempted. Jesus was human - but also God, which is why He could successfully resist all temptation. Scripture states Jesus endured all temptations common to man.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:47 pm
by abelcainsbrother
Blessed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 am
John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.
1st John 2:23 KJV,Galatians 3:10-13KJV,Galatians 3:24-29KJV,Philippians 2:9-11KJV and we are just reading and believing what the bible sais to believe Jesus is God and it is not a contradiction of the 1st commandment.If the law could save you like you are asserting God would not even have had to come to this world to redeem us.We know that no man lived by the law and yet you somehow think you can? Only Jesus did it and only he can save you.Jesus was observing the 1st commandment when he said the Father is greater than I.He lived the law out because we don't like we should. The law cannot save you,so give it up, and rely only on Jesus for your salvation in order to be Holy when you're really not.It is God that supplants Jesus over the Father. You are implying that the OT contradicts the NT when it does'nt.You sound like a Jew in Judaism. You've just been messed up by Jehovah Witness doctrine.

Jehovah Witnesses teach works for salvation just like all false religions do. Jehovah Witnesses are good people for the most part but they cannot save themselves by religious things they do and yet they think they can which is why it is considered a cult and false religion. Muslims teach religious works for salvation also and so does ALL false religions. Christianity does not.We are saved because of what Christ did and what Christ accomplished,not what we can do. You are believing what a church says instead of what the bible says when it comes to denying Jesus is God.If my church teaches things contrary to the bible I reject it,why not you?

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:10 am
by Blessed
PaulSacramento wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:27 am
Blessed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 am
John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is just like all of the other Sons of God ?
The bible is clear that Jesus was the one the created all - Colossians 1:16 and that He is God - John 1:1 and so forth.
This means that Jesus has the same nature as God, do you disagree with this?
I do agree Jesus has the same nature as God.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:22 am
by Blessed
RickD wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:26 am
Blessed,

Let me see if I can explain your theology in a nutshell:

1) Christians must follow Old Testament law(not sure what the purpose is)

2) Christians are anyone who believes in any christ, regardless of if they believe in the biblical Christ, who is God.

Is that pretty accurate?
1) Yes

2) No. A Christian believes Jesus Christ is the son of God sacrificed for our sins on the cross as our Savoir which redeems those who put their faith in that sacrificed. A Christian becomes baptized and/or born again then endears to the tenants of Christs teachings. A Christian does not follow the traditional customs and traditions of Judaism but those of the NT. A Christian accepts Jesus Christ as the messiah, spoken of in the OT - whereas Jews do not. There are thousands of other things I could say what I consider a Christian to be - but I've had 3 glasses of wine and I'm tired. Good night.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:41 am
by Blessed
-OK I STOPPED REPLYING BECAUSE IM TIRED.

BEFORE i REPLAY TO EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE - PLEASE BE HONEST AND SPECIFY IF YOU'RE USING THE KING JAMES BIBLE.


Isaiah 9:6 - written about seven centuries before the birth of Christ (KJV): "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

-HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED BY WHOM.


John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

- AGREE. BUT CHERRY PICKED. UNSPECIFIC RELATION. WE KNOW THE WORD IS GOD.

John 1:14: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

-AGREE. GODS WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG HUMANS AS JESUS. JESUS IS GOD IN NATURE BUT JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER.

Matthew 1:23: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us."

-I DONT KNOW HOW TO RESPOND TO THIS. ITS LATE. IM TIRED.

"John 10:30: "I and the Father are ONE."

-ONE IN NATURE. BUT IF THIS WERE MEANT LITERALLY WHY THE CONTRADICTIONS ELSEWHERE.



John 14:9: "Jesus said to him, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, `Show us the Father?'"

-SO NOW JESUS IS GOD .. AND BEFORE HE WAS THE SON OF GOD .

1 Timothy 3:16: "GOD was manifest in the flesh."

-CHERRY PICKED - OUT OF CONTEXT

1 Timothy 6:15: "... our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords."

Hebrews 1:8: "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever..."

-AGAIN THE WORD SON IS USED .. OK SO NOW JESUS IS A PRINCE WHO REPLACES THE KING RIGHT ?


Titus 2:13: "...the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus"

2 Peter 1:1: "by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ"

Revelation 19:16: "And on His robe and on His thigh He [Jesus] has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

The famous doubting disciple, Thomas, finally realizes who Jesus is, as he sees him post resurrection (John 17:5):

"Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!"

Why do you think the Jews wanted to kill Jesus - as they knew He was claiming to be God?

"For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:33)

Jesus was sinless and perfect - and yet, isn't only God perfect? Jesus accepted worship, and yet the Bible asserts us to never worship anyone but God. Some thought the apostles should be bowed to and worshiped - and yet they admonished those who did this, correcting them that only God should be worshiped. \


- O DONT KN OW MAYBE .. MAYBE .. IM TOO TIRED

And there is a LOT more - Did Jesus claim to be God? http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html
[/quote]

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:42 am
by Blessed
You have to make things pithy and easier to respond to.

Why don't you just copy paste the entire Bible while you're at it? Throw the book at me.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:56 am
by Blessed
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:47 pm
Blessed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 am
John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.
1st John 2:23 KJV,Galatians 3:10-13KJV,Galatians 3:24-29KJV,Philippians 2:9-11KJV and we are just reading and believing what the bible sais to believe Jesus is God and it is not a contradiction of the 1st commandment.If the law could save you like you are asserting God would not even have had to come to this world to redeem us.We know that no man lived by the law and yet you somehow think you can? Only Jesus did it and only he can save you.Jesus was observing the 1st commandment when he said the Father is greater than I.He lived the law out because we don't like we should. The law cannot save you,so give it up, and rely only on Jesus for your salvation in order to be Holy when you're really not.It is God that supplants Jesus over the Father. You are implying that the OT contradicts the NT when it does'nt.You sound like a Jew in Judaism. You've just been messed up by Jehovah Witness doctrine.

Jehovah Witnesses teach works for salvation just like all false religions do. Jehovah Witnesses are good people for the most part but they cannot save themselves by religious things they do and yet they think they can which is why it is considered a cult and false religion. Muslims teach religious works for salvation also and so does ALL false religions. Christianity does not.We are saved because of what Christ did and what Christ accomplished,not what we can do. You are believing what a church says instead of what the bible says when it comes to denying Jesus is God.If my church teaches things contrary to the bible I reject it,why not you?

So we just sit around on our Heinie's .. . grab a Pina Colada and a cigar ... sit under a palm tree .. and do nothing ... oh yea that's great ... why work when I get money for free and the sinner gets the same reward as the saint ...
..

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:03 am
by Blessed
And yes - it is a contradiction of the 1st commandment because you're saying Jesus is God thus putting Jesus before God ... neglecting the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob. Exodus 20:3

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:45 am
by PaulSacramento
Blessed wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:10 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:27 am
Blessed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 am
John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is just like all of the other Sons of God ?
The bible is clear that Jesus was the one the created all - Colossians 1:16 and that He is God - John 1:1 and so forth.
This means that Jesus has the same nature as God, do you disagree with this?
I do agree Jesus has the same nature as God.
Which would make Him God.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:12 am
by Philip
Blessed: Why don't you just copy paste the entire Bible while you're at it? Throw the book at me.
Well, I only quoted a portion of Scripture that refutes your contention Jesus is not God - you are arguing against a huge amount of direct evidence to the contrary. Jesus is eternal / never created, perfect, Lord of lords, Creator of all that has ever existed, was prophecied centuries before that He would be a child with the title of God, was killed for this claim of being God, accepted worship as God (as if He wasn't, he would be doing a blasphemous thing) - and Whose Kingdom is it? The Church is Whose bride? And Who is "I am?" And for 2,000 years the overwhelming consensus of Christiandom has been that Jesus is God!

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:13 am
by RickD
PaulSacramento wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:45 am
Blessed wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:10 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:27 am
Blessed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 am
John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is just like all of the other Sons of God ?
The bible is clear that Jesus was the one the created all - Colossians 1:16 and that He is God - John 1:1 and so forth.
This means that Jesus has the same nature as God, do you disagree with this?
I do agree Jesus has the same nature as God.
Which would make Him God.
But Jesus is not the father!

:wave:

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:53 am
by PaulSacramento
LOL, No, He is not The Father but since both share the same nature ( the nature of what is God), they are both God.

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:59 am
by RickD
PaulSacramento wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:53 am
LOL, No, He is not The Father but since both share the same nature ( the nature of what is God), they are both God.
But ice is not liquid water, therefore ice is not water.

It doesn't matter that both frozen water and liquid water have the same chemical composition. If ice is not liquid, it's not water.

Right Blessed?
:shakehead:

Re: How could God be Tempted by the devil?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:09 am
by Blessed
RickD wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:59 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:53 am
LOL, No, He is not The Father but since both share the same nature ( the nature of what is God), they are both God.
But ice is not liquid water, therefore ice is not water.

It doesn't matter that both frozen water and liquid water have the same chemical composition. If ice is not liquid, it's not water.

Right Blessed?
:shakehead:
That's a great example. This is what I am talking about. Water, Ice, Vapor, it's not the same now is it... it's three different things ..

Water was first and is therefore God over ice and vapor.