Is eternal security part of the gospel?

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Ottoman
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Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#1

Post by Ottoman » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:48 pm

Must one understand eternal security in order to be saved? I've heard some say that it IS part of the gospel and a necessary requirement for salvation. I've heard others say no, it's a growth, sanctification issue...a doctrinal issue that one learns after salvation. I've heard good arguments from both sides. Just curious what you guys think.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#2

Post by RickD » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:46 pm

Ottoman wrote:Must one understand eternal security in order to be saved? I've heard some say that it IS part of the gospel and a necessary requirement for salvation. I've heard others say no, it's a growth, sanctification issue...a doctrinal issue that one learns after salvation. I've heard good arguments from both sides. Just curious what you guys think.
As someone who unabashedly believes in eternal security, I don't think someone has to understand that he is secure in Christ, in order to be saved.

Believe in Christ. Trust in him for salvation. Period. That's all that's needed for salvation. The rest may or may not come as one grows and matures as a believer.
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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#3

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:28 pm

Don't think it's necessary for salvation.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#4

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:50 am

No! I do not believe it is part of the gospel.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#5

Post by Philip » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:14 pm

jpbg: No! I do not believe it is part of the gospel.
Doesn't matter what anyone believes - what matters is what Scripture actually says about it.

Here's a little light reading for you on the topic: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/s ... iever.html

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#6

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:11 pm

That article is full of mistakes here is one really big one.


By RickD
Parable of the sower

The parable of the sower has been used by eternal security skeptics as proof that eternal security does not exist, since Jesus indicates that at least one group "fell away."24 However, if this were a parable about salvation, then there should be only two groups (saved versus not saved) instead of four, as in the parable. The first group does not even understand the gospel message, hence doesn't believe.25 The second group hears the word of God and "receives it with joy," but falls away because of "trouble or persecution."24 The third group hears the word but produces no fruit since they are more concerned about wealth and worries of life.26 Unbelievers are able to recognize the goodness of the gospel, and may play the religion game while there is no cost to them. Both the second and third groups fall into this category. Neither group produces any fruit. It would be quite a stretch saying that these groups represent true believers. True believers always produce some fruit (although the amount of fruit can vary considerably). Since the "seed" in the parable is the preaching of the gospel, it is clear that none of the first three groups ever preached the gospel to others. So, it is quite clear that none of these people were true believers at any point before they "fell away."

Jesus said what the parable was about. Luke 8:11 - 15

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

If you read Jesus's explanation He makes it clear He is talking about 4 different groups of people.
Not about people preaching to others but that He is referring to the people that are being preached to.

Not only that but He makes it clear that we are saved by faith alone.

"lest they should believe and be saved"


Not only that but that you can believe then later stop believing.

"which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away"

Then He separated those who have fruit from those that have no fruit.

Jesus said you can stop believing then I believe you can stop believing.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#7

Post by RickD » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:36 pm

Image
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#8

Post by jpbg33 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:44 am

This is how RickD reasponds when he is proven wrong.

Instead of taking your preconceived notions and assuming he is right. Check out what he said. He said the parable was about people not preaching to others. That was not what Jesus said it was about. Jesus said it was about people being preached to then not being saved second people being preached to and being saved then later backsliding and fall from grace then third people being preached to and being saved but producing no fruit last people being saved and then producing lots of fruit.

Read it for yourselves it is Like 8:11-15

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#9

Post by RickD » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:00 am

jpbg33 wrote:This is how RickD reasponds when he is proven wrong.

Instead of taking your preconceived notions and assuming he is right. Check out what he said. He said the parable was about people not preaching to others. That was not what Jesus said it was about. Jesus said it was about people being preached to then not being saved second people being preached to and being saved then later backsliding and fall from grace then third people being preached to and being saved but producing no fruit last people being saved and then producing lots of fruit.

Read it for yourselves it is Like 8:11-15
Last time you were here on the forum, we had this same issue. You thought I wrote that article. But you really need better comprehension skills. I'm RickD. The person who wrote the article is the owner of the website, Rich Deem. Two completely different people.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#10

Post by jpbg33 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:51 am

I'm sorry guys it was not RickD that wrote the article it was Rich Deem.

But still you can see where Rich Deen was wrong in his interpretation of the parable and that is not the only flow in it there are more.
Last edited by jpbg33 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#11

Post by RickD » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:56 am

jpbg33 wrote:I'm sorry guys it was not RickD that wrote the article it was Rich Deen.

But still you can see where Rich Deen was wrong in his interpretation of the parable and that is not the only flow in it there are more.
It's Deem. Rich Deem!!!!
1 Corinthians 1:9
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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#12

Post by jpbg33 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:23 am

So I spelled his name wrong. The point is the article is not right. After reading it several times I see what he was saying. He is actually saying that the first 3 groups were not saved because they did not preach to others. I thought salvation came from believing alone I didn't know you had to preach to. My Bible says it is by faith alone. So the second group had to be saved because Jesus said they believed far a while. So if salvation is by faith alone then while they believed they were saved. Then Jesus said they fell away Rich Deem wonts to say they were not saved because he wonts to believes osas which says you can't fall away which is not true. Jesus never lies ad He said you can.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#13

Post by RickD » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:55 am

jpbg33 wrote:So I spelled his name wrong. The point is the article is not right. After reading it several times I see what he was saying. He is actually saying that the first 3 groups were not saved because they did not preach to others. I thought salvation came from believing alone I didn't know you had to preach to. My Bible says it is by faith alone. So the second group had to be saved because Jesus said they believed far a while. So if salvation is by faith alone then while they believed they were saved. Then Jesus said they fell away Rich Deem wonts to say they were not saved because he wonts to believes osas which says you can't fall away which is not true. Jesus never lies ad He said you can.
This has already been discussed here, and here.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#14

Post by jpbg33 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:56 am

I know it has I didn't bring it up but it is good to get a fresh look at the topic from time to time.

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Re: Is eternal security part of the gospel?

#15

Post by RickD » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:12 am

Let's not make this another discussion about whether Eternal Security is biblical. We already have enough threads on that. Please keep the discussion about what Ottoman asked in the original post.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


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