Understanding the Trinity

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
abelcainsbrother
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#871

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:08 pm

How can you say you believe in Jesus if you don't know who he is?Jesus is fully God in human flesh just as our bible teaches us,therefore if you reject who Jesus is,how can one be saved?It is one thing to say we beleve in Jesus but when we start denying who he is then we have a serious problem.We should want to know everything about Jesus if we say we believe in him.Denying who he is means we don't fully believe in him no matter how much we say we do.
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thatkidakayoungguy (Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:04 pm)
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#872

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:28 am

goingsouth wrote:
Your mess is in claiming in other threads something along the lines of: "Jesus is God but not fully so." Either Jesus is God, or Jesus is not, there's no half/half or this percentage, that percentage.
Who says that??? YOU! Not one scripture alludes to that. To many, the bible doesn't explicitly say Jesus is God, it only alludes to it. I believe the bible DOES affirm Jesus is God, and the words of Jesus AFFIRM God the Father is greater.
Well then, it seems I have perhaps misunderstood you in other threads, because what I remember reading (I don't want to chase it up), what that while you believe Jesus is God, that He isn't fully God.

If you do accept Jesus is fully divine, and also fully human, then there is much Scripture to support both you and me in this (some are just willingly blind or have been brain-washed by some Christian cult to such).

I previously cited in Phil 2 and John 1. Here are some other clear-cut passages of Christ's divinity:
  • John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

    Titus 2:13-15 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

    Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.

    2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and bapostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
And, most certainly, Jesus chose to humbly submit to the Father, lowering Himself in status or role when taking on human form, but as He Himself said, He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. If you've seen Christ, then you've seen the Father also. Jesus and Jehovah/YHWH are one and the same.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#873

Post by Byblos » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:10 am

goingsouth wrote: The trinity was devised by the Catholics in the 3-4th century who went on a campaign killing people for not accepting it.
Those damn romish catholics, it behooves us to shed every doctrine they invented. The only way to preserve Christianity is to reinvent it. :twisted:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#874

Post by goingsouth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:58 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:How can you say you believe in Jesus if you don't know who he is?Jesus is fully God in human flesh just as our bible teaches us,therefore if you reject who Jesus is,how can one be saved?It is one thing to say we beleve in Jesus but when we start denying who he is then we have a serious problem.We should want to know everything about Jesus if we say we believe in him.Denying who he is means we don't fully believe in him no matter how much we say we do.
I have never denied my Lord, and you accusing me of it is wrong. I love the Lord, I love WHO he is, what he's done, and love that when it's all over, he's taking me home with him.

The reason why I started participating in these 'trinity' threads is because I dislike the judgmentalism displayed by people who say you're condemned for NOT believing in a trinity, or in any other contentious doctrine. That kind of self-righteousness....condemning people who believe different, is ONE cause of the Churches demise across the US and EU. Unbelievers have an unfavorable view Christians and the church because they can't agree on anything, and then condemn one another for disagreeing. Then you have the gold digging televangelist like Benny Hinn and Mike Murdock etc. which most unbelievers and believers detest. There's no need for Atheist or any disdained unbelievers to slander and demonize the church, it's doing an awesome job of it on their own.

In the opening statement on “The Christian Expositor” they quote,
"Non-Christians are welcome to these pages. You will find an honest appraisal of problems within the church." I've had some lengthy discussions with them. In one of our final exchanges they e-mailed me back and inquired about the word 'mixed' which infers an Arabian, not a Roman, in Daniel 2: 41 and said, "should we be warning people about Islam rather than the RCC?" People who see Catholicism as a bigger threat than Islam have some serious issues.

Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
"The greatest impediment Christians have obtaining Truth is when they think they already have it."

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#875

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:45 am

Doctrine is important, sadly church sermons often lack it today, than it did say when you were a child.

Trinitarian doctrine is important for a coherent and consistent understanding of Christian theology, in what otherwise leads to all sorts of contradictions and errors. Whether or not one must have it down pat to be saved, three of four of my children I believe are saved, and the youngest I'm still yet to see, and they have no real understanding of Trinitarian theology (if many grown up Christians do).

Given you embrace a Binity of sorts, I wonder if you see any of the same problems you'd toss towards Trinitarians?
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#876

Post by abelcainsbrother » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:47 am

goingsouth wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:How can you say you believe in Jesus if you don't know who he is?Jesus is fully God in human flesh just as our bible teaches us,therefore if you reject who Jesus is,how can one be saved?It is one thing to say we beleve in Jesus but when we start denying who he is then we have a serious problem.We should want to know everything about Jesus if we say we believe in him.Denying who he is means we don't fully believe in him no matter how much we say we do.
I have never denied my Lord, and you accusing me of it is wrong. I love the Lord, I love WHO he is, what he's done, and love that when it's all over, he's taking me home with him.

The reason why I started participating in these 'trinity' threads is because I dislike the judgmentalism displayed by people who say you're condemned for NOT believing in a trinity, or in any other contentious doctrine. That kind of self-righteousness....condemning people who believe different, is ONE cause of the Churches demise across the US and EU. Unbelievers have an unfavorable view Christians and the church because they can't agree on anything, and then condemn one another for disagreeing. Then you have the gold digging televangelist like Benny Hinn and Mike Murdock etc. which most unbelievers and believers detest. There's no need for Atheist or any disdained unbelievers to slander and demonize the church, it's doing an awesome job of it on their own.

In the opening statement on “The Christian Expositor” they quote,
"Non-Christians are welcome to these pages. You will find an honest appraisal of problems within the church." I've had some lengthy discussions with them. In one of our final exchanges they e-mailed me back and inquired about the word 'mixed' which infers an Arabian, not a Roman, in Daniel 2: 41 and said, "should we be warning people about Islam rather than the RCC?" People who see Catholicism as a bigger threat than Islam have some serious issues.

Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
How is it tearing you down to point out that it is not good to deny who Jesus is if you say you believe in him?You cannot hide behind a Jesus that is not God and claim this is the real Jesus and Lord.You must accept him for who he truly is and Jesus was fully God in human flesh.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#877

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:01 am

goingsouth wrote:Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
If this is coming from disagreement with your erroneous beliefs, you equally believe ours are erroneous. Perhaps, you should look into your own advice. Since coming to this board, you've not been interested in discussion, but rather setting other Christians "straight", demonising and tearing into the RCC, churches and Christians who differ from you. And when people disagree you cry foul? Seriously. Sheesh.
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#878

Post by B. W. » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:30 am

You do not know Old Testament Hebrew very well, do you?
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#879

Post by RickD » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:41 am

B. W. wrote:You do not know Old Testament Hebrew very well, do you?
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Why is it that all the fruitcakes appear when B. W. is on vacation?

I'm starting to think B. W. is posting as these nut cases, just to get us all riled up when he's away.

Shame on you Mr. Melvin! :shakehead:
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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#880

Post by B. W. » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:19 pm

RickD wrote:
B. W. wrote:You do not know Old Testament Hebrew very well, do you?
Why is it that all the fruitcakes appear when B. W. is on vacation?

I'm starting to think B. W. is posting as these nut cases, just to get us all riled up when he's away.

Shame on you Mr. Melvin! :shakehead:
I think I chase them away... and, then, they are drawn to you :lol:

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#881

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:54 pm

Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5? Of course God could have more persons, but why 3? What is so special about 3? Ik that it has a special connotation, kind of like 7, and 3 is sometimes used as a good luck number.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#882

Post by Philip » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:17 pm

TheKid: Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5?

Because that's not what He is.
TheKid: Of course God could have more persons ...
No He could not, as He does not change. He is what He is - which is why He is "I Am."
TheKid: Why 3?
Because God is three Persons - not one, two or 50.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#883

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:03 pm

Philip wrote:TheKid: Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5?

Because that's not what He is.
TheKid: Of course God could have more persons ...
No He could not, as He does not change. He is what He is - which is why He is "I Am."
TheKid: Why 3?
Because God is three Persons - not one, two or 50.
Ok, to clarify, why has God always been in a trinity and not more or less? I believe this isn't something we can answer, other than bc God wanted it that way.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#884

Post by thatkidakayoungguy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:13 pm

goingsouth wrote: There's no need for Atheist or any disdained unbelievers to slander and demonize the church, it's doing an awesome job of it on their own.

Christian's are bent on demonizing one another. They build themselves up by tearing one another down.
I agree, I'm starting to get annoyed by it, but then again I have to be careful too.
Just look at the Protestant/Catholic wars (fights) in Ireland. Or the WBC. Utter stupid nonsense! There is a place to rebuke yeah, and I think the WBC is well meaning, but still wrong, but these things are lowering the Church's credibility.

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Re: Understanding the Trinity

#885

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:38 am

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:Sometimes I wonder why there is a specific reason God is in a trinity. Why not have 4? 5? Of course God could have more persons, but why 3? What is so special about 3? Ik that it has a special connotation, kind of like 7, and 3 is sometimes used as a good luck number.

Jesus is called God and is stated to do and be what God is and does.
The HS is called God and is stated to do and be what God is and does.
The father is called God and is sated to do and be what God is and does.

No one or nothing else is called God is stated to do or be what God is or does.


Creation:
Father, Son and HS are all stated to be involved in creation.
Salvation:
Father, Son and HS are all stated to be able to save.
Judgment and forgiveness:
Father, Son and HS are all stated to be able to judge and forgive.

So, there you have it.
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