'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

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crochet1949
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#61

Post by crochet1949 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:58 am

The person who makes it a Practice / Habit to do those things -- like lying, for instance. A person who Purposely lies -- purposely deceives other people with Non-truths Does have a Problem. When parents / adults catch a child 'telling a fib' the child needs to be Corrected. Because lying destroys a persons credibility.

But calling a person a liar -- declaring that another person is lying -- the accuser had better have Proof. Maybe the person Is a liar and that needs to be addressed -- but in an appropriate manner.

It's far better to say that another person is misinformed -- that way -- if the accuser is mistaken -- then the other person's reputation is not affected in a negative way.


So - a person who consistently walks in the Spirit will not sin????? How do you define 'walking in the Spirit'. Because Every born-again person has the Holy Spirit indwelling them. Because of the cross -- we are no longer Slaves Of sin. The Holy Spirit gives us the ability to say No. But satan is Also still on planet earth -- he knows our personal weaknesses and knows exactly how to lure us into sinning. A person can be a Weak Christian -- not much spiritual growth -- and That can rob us of opportunities to be an effective Christian witness. A person can be a pillar of the church and go home and secretly watch porn on his computer. Does anyone else Know what he's doing? Probably not. Unless -- sometime someone catches him watching it. So - he may not be Outwardly sinning that others can observe -- but it's still there. But Please -- do Not start questioning every person who is a pillar of their church and suspect them of secretly watching porn at home.

You're right -- no one sins constantly -- even non-believers don't sin Constantly. There are lots of clean-living, moral wonderful outstanding people who are Sinners. And it's hard to convince them that they Are sinners. It's hard for them to realize that telling that 'little white lie' can send them to hell. But they need to realize they are sinners and Need to be saved before they Can be saved and realizing what they are being saved From. And it's not that 'little white lie' that 'sends them to hell' it IS rejecting God's gift of salvation that Does. And a person would almost have to be Trying to find ways to sin to do it Constantly.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#62

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:43 am

I Guess walking in the Spirit would be putting God first in all that we do and try and please Him. I 've really never thought of it I just though that was the way we live as Christians.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#63

Post by RickD » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:03 am

jpbg33 wrote:I Guess walking in the Spirit would be putting God first in all that we do and try and please Him. I 've really never thought of it I just though that was the way we live as Christians.
So tell me how a Christian walks in the Spirit, giving him the power to overcome sin, if as you claim, the Holy Spirit does not indwell him?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#64

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:45 pm

RickD wrote:
So tell me how a Christian walks in the Spirit, giving him the power to overcome sin, if as you claim, the Holy Spirit does not indwell him?
I believe Jesus is in them and the bible say if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. You well not do it.

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RickD
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#65

Post by RickD » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:53 pm

jpbg33 wrote:
RickD wrote:
So tell me how a Christian walks in the Spirit, giving him the power to overcome sin, if as you claim, the Holy Spirit does not indwell him?
I believe Jesus is in them and the bible say if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. You well not do it.
You said before, that the Holy Spirit does not indwell a believer. You have no idea what you are talking about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gotquestio ... ent=safari
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

jpbg33
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#66

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:44 pm

I believe Jesus is Holy and He is in them but Christians are not filled with the Holy Ghost at the time of salvation. Salvation and being filled with the Holy Ghost is two different events in a Christians life. If Christians have the Holy Spirit in them at the time of salvation it is not the same as being filled with the Holy Ghost. Maybe I was wrong on that part but what I was talking about was that a person is not filled with the Holy Ghost at the time of salvation. Paul said have you been filled sense you believed. Then he told them about Jesus and then they believed and were saved then he laid hands on them and they were filled with the Holy Ghost. Two different events.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#67

Post by RickD » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:00 pm

So you do agree that the believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit. Good.

Now you need to explain how a believer can lose salvation, despite what scripture says here:
22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a [l]pledge.
2 Corinthians 1:22

And
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
2 Corinthians 5:5

God gave us the Holy Spirit as a pledge. A promise. If God guaranteed that we are saved, why are you calling him a liar? Or, why are you saying God can't keep us in Him despite our sin?

You are throwing aside God's promise.

A pledge is a down payment which guarantees the full amount will subsequently be paid.
In other words, God gave us the Holy Spirit as a promise that our salvation will be complete.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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jpbg33
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#68

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:30 pm

that isn't saying that you can not lose your salvation.

The seal he was using as an illustration could be voided if you broke it. So that does not mean you can not loes your salvation.

To much of the bible would be wrong it you could not lose it.

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RickD
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#69

Post by RickD » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:32 pm

jpbg33 wrote:that isn't saying that you can not lose your salvation.

The seal he was using as an illustration could be voided if you broke it. So that does not mean you can not loes your salvation.
Of course it's saying a believer can't lose salvation! A seal in the Roman world signified ownership, authentication, and security.
To much of the bible would be wrong it you could not lose it.
None of the Bible is wrong. Just your interpretation is wrong. Just read what scripture says, instead of reading it through your lens of lack of security.

Our God is amazing! Once we trust in Christ, God seals us with the Holy Spirit. A God who cannot lie, guarantees that we are secure in Him! He will never leave us!
When we are faithless, He remains faithful!

The love of God is amazing!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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jpbg33
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#70

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:34 pm

You are leaving out one very important part are adout that seal if it is broken it means nothing.



Christians lose there salvation when they stop beieving in Jesus as there savoir.

Our lack of works is how we know we have losed it (See I am not saying we work to be saved).

The bible says we know we are in Him if we keep his comments, and it says we konw we are not in Him if we bo not keep His comments.

It also says if you say you are in Him and keep not His comments then you are a liar and the truth is not in you.

The bible says to keep the faith, to hold fast, when you have done all to stand stand therefore, run with patience as a lot more that I can not recall right now, but you will never see were it says don't worry it is ok if you sin.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#71

Post by RickD » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:58 pm

jpbg wrote:
You are leaving out one very important part are adout that seal if it is broken it means nothing.
God is the one who sealed us. God is the one who guarantees we are secure. For the seal(the indwelling Holy Spirit) to be broken, God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, would have to leave us. And God says He will never leave us. Hebrews 13:5
Christians lose there salvation when they stop beieving in Jesus as there savoir.
You keep asserting that, yet you offer no proof from scripture.
Our lack of works is how we know we have losed it (See I am not saying we work to be saved).
And there you go, back to your works to keep salvation, or your lack of works to lose it. I wish you would stop. Works have no part in salvation.
The bible says we know we are in Him if we keep his comments, and it says we konw we are not in Him if we bo not keep His comments.

It also says if you say you are in Him and keep not His comments then you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
And you keep His commandments? All of them, all the time? Then I guess according to your own words, you are a liar, and you're going to hell.
The bible says to keep the faith, to hold fast, when you have done all to stand stand therefore, run with patience as a lot more that I can not recall right now, but you will never see were it says don't worry it is ok if you sin.
Who is saying it is ok to sin?

You really need to stop misrepresenting people!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

jpbg33
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#72

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:32 pm

Im keeping Gods comments I have messed up but that is ok because I have repented. And you must remember it is not what we do that saves us it is God. If we believe then we are saved and will repent. If we do not repent then we are not saved.

What part of the fruit makes the tree a fruit tree.

I do not think it is my works that saves me they just show me if I am or not. A good tree can not produces bad fruit so if I am then I am not a good tree. It is not the fruit that makes me a bad tree but it is me the bad tree making the bad fruit.

crochet1949
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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#73

Post by crochet1949 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:22 pm

jpbg33 wrote:I believe Jesus is Holy and He is in them but Christians are not filled with the Holy Ghost at the time of salvation. Salvation and being filled with the Holy Ghost is two different events in a Christians life. If Christians have the Holy Spirit in them at the time of salvation it is not the same as being filled with the Holy Ghost. Maybe I was wrong on that part but what I was talking about was that a person is not filled with the Holy Ghost at the time of salvation. Paul said have you been filled sense you believed. Then he told them about Jesus and then they believed and were saved then he laid hands on them and they were filled with the Holy Ghost. Two different events.
You use both terms / Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost. What is the difference between the two.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#74

Post by Stu » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:40 am

RickD wrote:
Stu wrote:
RickD wrote:
Stu wrote:
RickD wrote: What if one steals and murders while believing in Christ as his savior? Does he lose his salvation?
No, if you ask for forgiveness. And only if you are sincere, not if you keep on murdering and stealing. God knows your heart and whether you are being sincere. Like the Mafia who ask for forgiveness and then go and murder.

Besides that's not what I said....... I said "If you stop believing in Christ as your saviour and instead turn to Satanism".
Stu,

I read what you said. I'm trying to show you the logical conclusion of what you said.

Is unbelief a sin?
I guess not, but you have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins in order to go to heaven. So that God can forgive your sins.

What if you no longer believe that.
So unbelief in Christ is NOT a sin?
Not sure, guess not though.

But belief in Christ as your saviour IS required in order to go to heaven. If you do not believe that Christ died for your sins then you will not go to heaven.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: 'If you could lose eternal life it wouldn't be eternal'

#75

Post by RickD » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:59 am

Well Stu,

If you don't think unbelief in Christ is a sin, then I guess we have nothing further to discuss here.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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