Catholicism

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
User avatar
Mazzy
Valued Member
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:30 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: NSW, Australia
Has liked: 26 times
Been liked: 12 times

Re: Catholicism

#121

Post by Mazzy » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:25 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Mazzy wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mazzy wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:There are a few things in the RC religion that are not biblical.
They are based on the tradition of the Church, not the bible per say.
So far I have no knowledge of any religion that 'gets it right' according to me. For starters the apostles met in peoples homes not 'churches'. "Churches', per Se, are not biblical. :shakehead:

Can you or someone else name a faith that is totally 'biblical'? y:-?
Nope.
I think what I am getting at is that we can always challenge another's views and use scripture to do so. The apostles got it wrong as stated by Jesus. We don't have to be better. There is nothing in the bible that says "thou shalt be saved if you interpret every scripture and doctrine 100% correctly".

Pope Francis would like to change allot within the CC. He is being challenged by the traditionalists. I admire Pope Francis. If he changes the nonsense around having to be married in the Catholic church to receive communion he'd get me back in the Catholic pews, despite my views on praying to Mary. My view is that the Catholic faith is the original faith that traces back to the first century. I would love to go back home.
Salvation is only possible by belief in Christ.
None of the major denominations state otherwise.
I have issues when a denomination inserts ANYTHING into the baptismal rite ( it should only state Father, Son and HS).
I have issues when a denomination inserts ANYONE or ANYTHING between Christ and a believer.

There is ONE path to God: Christ
There is ONE mediator between man and God: Christ
There is salvation under only ONE name: Christ
Yes, it is so that the bible states there is one path to Salvation, that being through Christ. Yes, Christian faiths believe this even if they carry on about the Trinity. That does not mean that a Catholic that prays to Mary or believes in the Trinity is eternally condemned. Are you suggesting Catholics are condemned or will have to do some sort of penitence in this world or the next? Maybe I am misinterpreting your posts!

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8383
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 394 times
Been liked: 636 times

Re: Catholicism

#122

Post by Philip » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:27 pm

Of COURSE, Catholics with faith in Christ are saved.

But except for cryptic, CC-inspired interpretations of Mary adulation and seeking her mediations, the assertion that there is ANY mediator required between God and man (exceptjesus) is a heresy! And I'm still waiting for just one Scriptural example of any apostle advocating or practicing the besceetching of passed on Saints! The prayers of ALL saints are of equal value in God's eyes. NO one here has explained why God views one saint's petitions of more value than any others. NOwhere in Scripture, post the Ressurection, do we read of some elevated or extraordinary role for Mary. And in John 19, where Jesus entrusts his mother to John's care, not one word about such a status or role. The very fact that Mary is almost invisible post-Resurrection, that her special role or the role of ANY mediation by saints in Heaven is never mentioned, no prayers to saints are EVER offered speaks volumes on this errant Catholic teaching. Plus the fact that the Catholic elevation and teachings about Mary came centuries later should give serious doubts about it.

User avatar
Rob
Valued Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:26 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Catholicism

#123

Post by Rob » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:41 am

Mazzy wrote: Yes, it is so that the bible states there is one path to Salvation, that being through Christ. Yes, Christian faiths believe this even if they carry on about the Trinity. That does not mean that a Catholic that prays to Mary or believes in the Trinity is eternally condemned. Are you suggesting Catholics are condemned or will have to do some sort of penitence in this world or the next? Maybe I am misinterpreting your posts!
Forgive me if I'm misreading your posts, and maybe you've already clarified this elsewhere, but are you not a Trinitarian? y:-/

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9185
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 346 times

Re: Catholicism

#124

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:23 am

Mazzy wrote: Yes, it is so that the bible states there is one path to Salvation, that being through Christ. Yes, Christian faiths believe this even if they carry on about the Trinity. That does not mean that a Catholic that prays to Mary or believes in the Trinity is eternally condemned. Are you suggesting Catholics are condemned or will have to do some sort of penitence in this world or the next? Maybe I am misinterpreting your posts!
Anyone, regardless of denomination, that believes in Christ is saved.
And your comment about the Trinity is a bit confusing since all denominations, except those fringes ones, believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.
That Christ is God is explicit in the NT.

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3048
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 187 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Catholicism

#125

Post by Storyteller » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:30 am

Mazzy wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Have started this here so we don`t totally derail Bippy`s thread!

I have no particular denomination, I am still exploring.

I have chatted with a Catholic and I really like some of the ideas behind it. I am NOT saying that Mary is somehow "above" God or Christ. All I am saying is that through Her I relate better to Christ. I like the mysteries, they are NOT a substitute for prayer and I don`t find them repetitive, they are more of a reflection on my feelings. Most of them are backed up scripturally (there is a link, will look it out) and that I like the idea of having a Rosary.

I am interested in the history of the Catholic church, but I am interested in a lot of other things too, I like finding out about stuff and I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit will guide me in the right direction.

I find the Mysteries easier to relate to, and to feel than the Bible at the moment and I am discovering that the Mysteries help me understand the Bible better.

Yes, I am happy to acknowledge Mary, and to offer Her my thanks, She is not a substitute for God. Or Christ.

I have been led this far.

I trust God.
Hi there Storyteller

I have yet to catch up on all the replies given to you so far so I hope I am not being repetitive. The Catholic Church has much history that Popes have apologized for. Having said that I don't think there is any religion that can rightfully claim it is squeaky clean. Here is a link to Wiki which you have likely already seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... lic_Church

I am a baptized Catholic but currently attend an Anglican church. I went back to the Catholic church for a month recently but found I wanted to go back to the Anglican church. I think God can lead us to any faith. In my opinion the various Christian faiths are a means to an end, pleasing God more each day, rather than an end to a means, this way or the highway to hell or damnation. I don't even believe one has to attend a church. I do so for added Christian fellowship and spiritual support. I'd like to see current forms of worship change from the traditional and would gladly join such a congregation if I knew of any close by. I have fairly strong views around this.

The bible writers suggest we pray for one another. Catholics believe that our departed brothers and sisters recent and past can hear our requests for prayer as they have ascended to heaven and can pray to God for us as we do for each other. I don't know if that is true or not and no one can say for sure either way. All we can do is offer our opinion on it and quote mine scriptures to support our individual view.

God has to forgive much ignorance. If He doesn't then heavenly souls will be scant. You certainly sound like you want to draw closer to God and are well on your way in your Christian journey. I think we all mature spiritually and can change our views over time.

Take care and may Gods' guiding spirit guide you to please him more and more each day.
Hi Mazzy :)

Thanks for the link. I shall spend a little more time on it later as there is quite a lot to read there!

I don`t think that I will become a Catholic, I`m not even sure I want to subscribe to any particular faith but there are a few aspects of Cathoilcism that appeal to me but I think I need to study it more, along with other tings. I am being careful, praying, and trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me in my journey. I suppose, really, it`s all down to the fact that I love learning about new things and there are so many things to study and learn about different religions.

The only thing I am absolutely rock solid sure about is that I love God, trust God and Christ is my salvation. The rest is just details.

As for church, I feel uncomfortable generally, in a congregation. I am happier alone, praying, in a church. I am toying with the idea of visiting my local Catholic church just to see if I feel more comfortable there, that`s all.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9185
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 346 times

Re: Catholicism

#126

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:39 am

Storyteller wrote:
Mazzy wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Have started this here so we don`t totally derail Bippy`s thread!

I have no particular denomination, I am still exploring.

I have chatted with a Catholic and I really like some of the ideas behind it. I am NOT saying that Mary is somehow "above" God or Christ. All I am saying is that through Her I relate better to Christ. I like the mysteries, they are NOT a substitute for prayer and I don`t find them repetitive, they are more of a reflection on my feelings. Most of them are backed up scripturally (there is a link, will look it out) and that I like the idea of having a Rosary.

I am interested in the history of the Catholic church, but I am interested in a lot of other things too, I like finding out about stuff and I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit will guide me in the right direction.

I find the Mysteries easier to relate to, and to feel than the Bible at the moment and I am discovering that the Mysteries help me understand the Bible better.

Yes, I am happy to acknowledge Mary, and to offer Her my thanks, She is not a substitute for God. Or Christ.

I have been led this far.

I trust God.
Hi there Storyteller

I have yet to catch up on all the replies given to you so far so I hope I am not being repetitive. The Catholic Church has much history that Popes have apologized for. Having said that I don't think there is any religion that can rightfully claim it is squeaky clean. Here is a link to Wiki which you have likely already seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... lic_Church

I am a baptized Catholic but currently attend an Anglican church. I went back to the Catholic church for a month recently but found I wanted to go back to the Anglican church. I think God can lead us to any faith. In my opinion the various Christian faiths are a means to an end, pleasing God more each day, rather than an end to a means, this way or the highway to hell or damnation. I don't even believe one has to attend a church. I do so for added Christian fellowship and spiritual support. I'd like to see current forms of worship change from the traditional and would gladly join such a congregation if I knew of any close by. I have fairly strong views around this.

The bible writers suggest we pray for one another. Catholics believe that our departed brothers and sisters recent and past can hear our requests for prayer as they have ascended to heaven and can pray to God for us as we do for each other. I don't know if that is true or not and no one can say for sure either way. All we can do is offer our opinion on it and quote mine scriptures to support our individual view.

God has to forgive much ignorance. If He doesn't then heavenly souls will be scant. You certainly sound like you want to draw closer to God and are well on your way in your Christian journey. I think we all mature spiritually and can change our views over time.

Take care and may Gods' guiding spirit guide you to please him more and more each day.
Hi Mazzy :)

Thanks for the link. I shall spend a little more time on it later as there is quite a lot to read there!

I don`t think that I will become a Catholic, I`m not even sure I want to subscribe to any particular faith but there are a few aspects of Cathoilcism that appeal to me but I think I need to study it more, along with other tings. I am being careful, praying, and trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me in my journey. I suppose, really, it`s all down to the fact that I love learning about new things and there are so many things to study and learn about different religions.

The only thing I am absolutely rock solid sure about is that I love God, trust God and Christ is my salvation. The rest is just details.

As for church, I feel uncomfortable generally, in a congregation. I am happier alone, praying, in a church. I am toying with the idea of visiting my local Catholic church just to see if I feel more comfortable there, that`s all.

There is no reason for you to join any denomination.
We are commanded to follow Christ, to LISTEN to Christ.
Not to man.

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3048
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 187 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Catholicism

#127

Post by Storyteller » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:44 am

Thank you Paul :)

I am listening to Him, hard :)

He has guided me this far and there have been several examples where He has warned me about something and I listen to Him. Any studying I do is done prayerfully (is that a word?) and He has not let me down.

I enjoy learning, I am curious about all aspects of religion, of faith, why people think what they do and I wouldn`t like to discount anything. I am sure God is working within me, leading me, showing me which way He wants me to go, which is precisely why I don`t think I will ever have a particular denomination. I think all religion is man made anyway.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9185
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 346 times

Re: Catholicism

#128

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:05 am

Storyteller wrote:Thank you Paul :)

I am listening to Him, hard :)

He has guided me this far and there have been several examples where He has warned me about something and I listen to Him. Any studying I do is done prayerfully (is that a word?) and He has not let me down.

I enjoy learning, I am curious about all aspects of religion, of faith, why people think what they do and I wouldn`t like to discount anything. I am sure God is working within me, leading me, showing me which way He wants me to go, which is precisely why I don`t think I will ever have a particular denomination. I think all religion is man made anyway.
Religion is simply the belief in something, typically the supernatural.
Religion is as man made as anything else that is though up.
People that say they don't believe in religion or have issues in religion don't typically mean that, what they tend to me is they don't agree/believe in ORGANIZED religion.

Here is the definition of religion:

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

a particular system of faith and worship.



In short, the moment you have a set of beliefs in God, you are religious.
Of course nowadays a religion is ANYTHING to which a person can be devoted to.

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3048
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 187 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Catholicism

#129

Post by Storyteller » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:21 am

The only thing I am devoted to is God.

Since joining here I have found out so much, made quite a few friends and learnt that the one thing we all have in common is a love for God, no matter what particular religion we follow. I am enjoying discovering what people think and the home site is a mine of information.

I am studying the Bible, finding passages that actually do speak to me on a personal level.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21374
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 200 times
Been liked: 1077 times

Re: Catholicism

#130

Post by RickD » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:50 am

Storyteller wrote:
I am studying the Bible, finding passages that actually do speak to me on a personal level.
:amen:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3048
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 187 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Catholicism

#131

Post by Storyteller » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:53 am

RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:
I am studying the Bible, finding passages that actually do speak to me on a personal level.
:amen:
Actually, to be more precise they are finding me.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

User avatar
Mazzy
Valued Member
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:30 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: NSW, Australia
Has liked: 26 times
Been liked: 12 times

Re: Catholicism

#132

Post by Mazzy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:45 am

Storyteller wrote:
Mazzy wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Have started this here so we don`t totally derail Bippy`s thread!

I have no particular denomination, I am still exploring.

I have chatted with a Catholic and I really like some of the ideas behind it. I am NOT saying that Mary is somehow "above" God or Christ. All I am saying is that through Her I relate better to Christ. I like the mysteries, they are NOT a substitute for prayer and I don`t find them repetitive, they are more of a reflection on my feelings. Most of them are backed up scripturally (there is a link, will look it out) and that I like the idea of having a Rosary.

I am interested in the history of the Catholic church, but I am interested in a lot of other things too, I like finding out about stuff and I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit will guide me in the right direction.

I find the Mysteries easier to relate to, and to feel than the Bible at the moment and I am discovering that the Mysteries help me understand the Bible better.

Yes, I am happy to acknowledge Mary, and to offer Her my thanks, She is not a substitute for God. Or Christ.

I have been led this far.

I trust God.
Hi there Storyteller

I have yet to catch up on all the replies given to you so far so I hope I am not being repetitive. The Catholic Church has much history that Popes have apologized for. Having said that I don't think there is any religion that can rightfully claim it is squeaky clean. Here is a link to Wiki which you have likely already seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... lic_Church

I am a baptized Catholic but currently attend an Anglican church. I went back to the Catholic church for a month recently but found I wanted to go back to the Anglican church. I think God can lead us to any faith. In my opinion the various Christian faiths are a means to an end, pleasing God more each day, rather than an end to a means, this way or the highway to hell or damnation. I don't even believe one has to attend a church. I do so for added Christian fellowship and spiritual support. I'd like to see current forms of worship change from the traditional and would gladly join such a congregation if I knew of any close by. I have fairly strong views around this.

The bible writers suggest we pray for one another. Catholics believe that our departed brothers and sisters recent and past can hear our requests for prayer as they have ascended to heaven and can pray to God for us as we do for each other. I don't know if that is true or not and no one can say for sure either way. All we can do is offer our opinion on it and quote mine scriptures to support our individual view.

God has to forgive much ignorance. If He doesn't then heavenly souls will be scant. You certainly sound like you want to draw closer to God and are well on your way in your Christian journey. I think we all mature spiritually and can change our views over time.

Take care and may Gods' guiding spirit guide you to please him more and more each day.
Hi Mazzy :)

Thanks for the link. I shall spend a little more time on it later as there is quite a lot to read there!

I don`t think that I will become a Catholic, I`m not even sure I want to subscribe to any particular faith but there are a few aspects of Cathoilcism that appeal to me but I think I need to study it more, along with other tings. I am being careful, praying, and trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me in my journey. I suppose, really, it`s all down to the fact that I love learning about new things and there are so many things to study and learn about different religions.

The only thing I am absolutely rock solid sure about is that I love God, trust God and Christ is my salvation. The rest is just details.

As for church, I feel uncomfortable generally, in a congregation. I am happier alone, praying, in a church. I am toying with the idea of visiting my local Catholic church just to see if I feel more comfortable there, that`s all.
I basically agree and do not feel church attendance is required. The concern is that we are asked to not forsake the gathering of yourselves together in Hebrews 10:25. Of my personal friends that also live locally I have one that is a true believer and I would say id spiritually up-building. I like going to church to gather with other Christians and as means to be invited to Christians gatherings.

Also I have opportunities to challenge the status quo. For example a attended the Lenten bible study. This gave me yet another opportunity to challenge some common thinking. I chose the Anglican church mostly because we are not told to believe too much rubbish per se. I can challenge and say things like I do not believe the priest should be paid to serve God, it does not take a priest to bless the communal bread particularly given Jesus gave thanks and did not bless the bread He broke, that church service is built on a lot of traditional nonsense. I was actually surprised at how many parishioners agree with me. Even the minister agrees with some of the things I have to say.

I also sought God long before I returned to church. Apart from wondering about Hebrews 10:25, I also started thinking that the way I thought was 'the way to think'. I started looking down on others as if they were not as spiritually mature as I was and that I could 'see' things clearer than some others. Having 'risen above bricks and mortar' was a bit of penchant of mine.

This was a huge mistake, I felt. In actual fact I now discern that the congregation of God is made of many different sorts of people, worshiping in different ways, on their own, in a mainstream church, in the crazy churches, and with different levels of spirituality. I am not even sure that all non Christians are doomed. After all some atheists behave better than some Christians and are more loving of their neighbor.

I believe, the church and its teachings are a base at least. Many people are still illiterate. If someone illiterate asks me about finding God, I will give them the "Mazzy guide to God". The various faiths are no different. Who am I or who is anyone to say their path is the only one acceptable to God, as if anyone person or faith has got every scriptural understanding and moral value 100% correct according to God.

I applaud you for seeking to know God better and wish you much joy on your spiritual journey.

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9185
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 346 times

Re: Catholicism

#133

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:10 am

Some people bring up Hebrews 10:25 as some sort of evidence that going to church is mandatory or needed or essential.
Yet the verse is quite clear and the writer simply states:
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;
24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
What we have hear is the writer encouraging the readers to hold fat to their hope and faith and to consider how best to help each other and yo not forsake encouraging each other as a group when things get bad.
We need to realize that for many worship is a communal thing and that it is also a social experience.
Of course that leads to all sorts of issues ( As Paul had to address in his letters to the Corinthians) also, BUT there is a safety and strength in numbers.
It is for easier to keep strengthening your hope and faith when you see others doing likewise.

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3048
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 187 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Catholicism

#134

Post by Storyteller » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:05 am

Couldnt agree more Mazzy.

Personally I think anywhere there are people gathering to love and honour God is a church. This forum is a church to me.
I have been strengthened in my faith, learnt so much about Christ, the Scripture and come to know so many wonderful people on here.

I feel truly blessed to be a part of this forum.

I have always believed in God, I spent a long time looking for Him. I spend a lot of time online through my work and find I relate better to people this way and find it easier to express how I feel through this medium. God was patiently waiting for me to connect all the dots and for me to folow the breadcrumb trail.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8383
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 394 times
Been liked: 636 times

Re: Catholicism

#135

Post by Philip » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:53 pm

Mazzy: I am not even sure that all non Christians are doomed.
Scripture seems to indicate that they are.
After all some atheists behave better than some Christians and are more loving of their neighbor.
Irrelevant! Scripture teaches that good works are not the key to heaven, faith in Christ IS!

Post Reply