Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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B. W.
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#946

Post by B. W. » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:27 am

bbyrd009 looks like you just lost your salvation. You are judging people without taking the mote out of your own eye first.

Your come across as very arrogant, unteachable, and someone who spams the board with well crazy talk.

Suggest you kindly take a few days off this forum and cool down…
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#947

Post by bbyrd009 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:08 am

B. W. wrote:bbyrd009 looks like you just lost your salvation. You are judging people without taking the mote out of your own eye first.

Your come across as very arrogant, unteachable, and someone who spams the board with well crazy talk.

Suggest you kindly take a few days off this forum and cool down…
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? really? Wadr, BW, i am not getting why you respond that way, when my last interaction on this post did not seem to be confrontational at all; could you explain what i am missing here? ty
bbyrd009 wrote:
Stu wrote:
bbyrd009 wrote:
Stu wrote:
bbyrd009 wrote:also, we have several, many types of Christ, in the Book, it is possibly naive to even suspect that Christ is not embodied-
What does this mean. What are you saying?
oh...just that Adam, Melchizedek, Moses, Sampson, David, prolly some others i missed, are acknowledged to be "types" of Christ, shadows, reflections, iow.
Those men weren't like Jesus.

Jesus was sin-free. He was pure.
Some might have been good men, but you can't really compare them on that level. Men are sinful.
See Gospel harmony based on John
Jesus = Samson = Jonah-Than = Jonah swallowed by a Than (shark)
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/At-a-gla ... _Bible/201
and my apologies, if i offended you somehow, in this exchange
"Creation is continuous, and never stops."

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#948

Post by B. W. » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:42 am

I wrote this before discovering your post concerning your condition of mild Asperger's...

Now that I know what makes your obnoxious, as you admitted too, I will treat you as a Case Manager would...

Do you understand?
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#949

Post by crochet1949 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:27 am

B. W. wrote:I wrote this before discovering your post concerning your condition of mild Asperger's...

Now that I know what makes your obnoxious, as you admitted too, I will treat you as a Case Manager would...

Do you understand?
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I was thinking that it sounded more like 'mild Asperger's" rather than autism. Though they might be similar depending On.

Cause with kids with autism -- they tend to go 'within themselves' -- create their own inner world because the Real world is too complicated for them for whatever reason.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#950

Post by jpbg33 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:33 am

these verses here from Hebrews straight out say osas is not true.

Hebrews 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 
Hebrews 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 
Hebrews 10:28  He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 
Hebrews 10:29  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 

this chapter was clearly referring to the greatness of salvation and was comparing the way given to the old testament saints to the salvation we have through Jesus. Basically in Hebrews 10:26 - 27 it says if you sin wilfully after you are saved then there is no more forgiveness for your sins but that you will be going to hell with the devil. how much planer does it need to be.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#951

Post by 1over137 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:18 pm

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#952

Post by Philip » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:50 pm

Hana, just to emphasize the last part of your link:

"This passage is not speaking of a believer who falls away, but rather someone who may claim to be a believer, but truly is not. Anyone who apostatizes is proving he never had genuine faith to begin with (1 John 2:19)."

NO person who has already come to salvation can then lose it. Paul says we can have confidence that "He that began a good work in you will complete it..." Who is HE? It's Jesus! This means that WE don't and can't sustain our salvation. And what does salvation mean? It means to have entered ETERNAL life! There is NO such thing as temporary eternal life - that would be an oxymoron.

Note also the same Hebrews 10 passage referenced:

"23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful."

WHO does it say IS faithful and that makes our confession of Christ true "hope?" JESUS! He is faithful when we aren't. One saved no longer has there sins counted toward them: Romans 8:8: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." NO one could believe if God didn't make it possible and hadn't drawn them to Him. And He makes it possible to all who won't permanently resist Him. We can't earn or merit GOD'S salvation - it's HIS work. And because it is His, once saved, God has sealed the deal. NO one has the ability to maintain their own salvation - nor does God require they do - as HE is the one Who does it!

The Apostle Paul could not say He has confidence that God will keep our salvation, if it were up to us failable Christians to do so. While God no longer counts the sins of a Christian, we still sin. Note that Paul's emphasis is not on US maintaining our salvation - but is on God! Anyone who thinks they can still lose their salvation after being saved will actually have the opposite of the confidence Paul says we can have about it - and those will be people in constant fear and trying to do enough good works that they hope will be acceptable to God. How foolish, how sad.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#953

Post by jpbg33 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:12 am

You wont it to say that but that is not what is says. it can't possibly mean what you are saying it means.


First
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

unsaved people are not sanctified Paul said he was sanctified it did not say the blood that he could be sanctified. So sense he was sanctified he had to be a Christian.


second

unsaved people sin willfully all the time and if what you are saying is true then that verse would be saying that if a sinner sins willfully after he knows about salvation then it is impossible for them to get saved. that is hog wash. that verse was not saying that someone that was not saved can not be saved after he has herd the good news of salvation then sinned willfully, but what it is saying is that if someone that is saved sins willfully after they are saved then there is no more sacrifice for there sins but they are on there way to hell.


third

if you believe that Paul is referring to someone that is not really saved then you must believe that if the unsaved person does not sin willfully after they act as if they are saved then they will go to heaven. Because that is what it says if it is talking about someone that is not saved.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#954

Post by LittleHamster » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:29 pm

The dude has skillz !

Hebrews 10:26


Hebrews 10:29
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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#955

Post by jpbg33 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:05 pm

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, where with he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

That person on that video sure was trying to twist the scripture.

If you payation to what he says you will notice that he reads the verse right then when he trys to explain it he changes the words up.

He reads it to say the person Paul is talking about was sanctified because that is what the Bible says. It says "he was sanctified". Then when he is trying to explain it he changes it from "he was sanctified" to " the blood that sanctifies you" which completely changes the meaning of the verse. Paul said that"he was sanctified" which means that the person was sanctified, and the man in the video changed it to "the blood that sanctifies you" which makes it seem as the person is trodden under foot the way of salvation not his salvation. Paul said "he was sanctified" so he had to be a Christian.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#956

Post by LittleHamster » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:40 pm

It's an example of refusing to accept the free gift and so not saved.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#957

Post by jpbg33 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:40 pm

At least this man admitted that the person Paul was talking about was sanctified but he tried to explain it by saying everyone is sanctified. He said that Jesus sacrificing His body once for all mean that everyone Christians and sinners alike are sanctified, but that is not right sinners are not sanctified. What the Bible mean by once for all was that Jesus died once on the cross and he died for everyone. So no matter when you were born in time his sacrifice was for you. It mean He does not keep dying over and over again every time someone ask him to be saved. When Jesus died on the cross everyone was not all at once sanctified.
Verse 11 explains the once for all. Paul said that priest sacrifice the same sacrifices over and over again which doesn't do anything for you.
If you read verse 14 it says "them that are sanctified". Which mean everyone are not sanctified you have to expect the free gift from God then you are sanctified.

The person was sanctified so he had to be saved then lost his salvation.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#958

Post by LittleHamster » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:34 am

As this woman mentions, "you can't just take a little piece of scripture and say what you think it means". Context is the key.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#959

Post by jpbg33 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 am

That lady overlooked the fact again that the person was sanctified. Text is key and in that time there were people turning back to the Jewish law from the law of Grace, and Paul was explaining to them what happens to a person that sins against both Covenant.

So the text was about the Jews that were turning back to the Jewish law, but in the text Paul used truth of the covenants to make a point.

The truth that Paul used was that if a man under the old covenant goes against the old covenant that he was in. Then under 2 or three witnesses they were killed.

Then Paul took that same scenario he used with the old covenant and said what happens to a person that sins once under the new covenant. Paul didn't put a particular sin on it but just said to commit a willful sin, but if you won't to put the sin of turning back to Jewish law I will entertain that thought with you.


So what Paul was telling the Jews was that if you get saved and then trunk back then you were no longer saved and that there was no sacrifices you could do for your sins but you were going to hell when you died. So according to Paul they would have lost there salvation.

To be part of the new covenant you half to be saved. That is why Paul said after you have received the knowledge and why Paul said the person was sanctified.

You see in the old covenant the Jew was born into it. Then later if they rejected it they were killed, but in the new covenant you are not born into it, but you accept it by accepting Jesus as your Savior. Once you accept Jesus as your Savior you are a partaker of the new covenant.

So Paul said in that passage according to context that if a Jew got saved then turn away from the new covenant, then they lost their solvation and we're on there way to hell.

So if a Jew can lose it by turning back from it then we can as well.

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Re: Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

#960

Post by RickD » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:46 am

If Paul is saying that a believer can lose salvation, then how to you interpret what Paul says in Hebrews 10:14?

14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Does "all time" not really mean what it says, just like eternal life really isn't eternal, but temporary?

Jpbg 3:16:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have temporary life, until whosoever sins, then they lose salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."


St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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