Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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B. W.
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Re: Eternal Security...

#331

Post by B. W. » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:39 pm

UsagiTsukino wrote:I have a question I know the word church is more than just a building since the word means to assembly. So I haven't been going to church the building not because I don't want to but I haven't been feeling welcome. Is that bad?
Well, you are in this cyber assembly so you are welcome here!

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Re: Eternal Security...

#332

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:50 pm

jpbg33 wrote:It isn't a sin to not go to church but we go to church to get encouragement from other believers.

But if we are not filling welcome at a particular church then we need to find a church that make us fill welcome.
Other than the horrible grammar, I agree with this post.

:D
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Eternal Security...

#333

Post by LittleHamster » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:26 pm

I hope you all have a sense of humor....


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Re: Eternal Security...

#334

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:29 am

LittleHamster wrote:I hope you all have a sense of humor....

hdnchhf.jpg
Cute! :D
But, "savlation" is spelled wrong. ;)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Eternal Security...

#335

Post by Rob » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:13 am

jpbg33 wrote:I'm not meaning it in the way you are taking it what I am trying to say is that you do wrong because you are not saved and we do right because we are.
And if you do wrong, you're then not actually saved until you ask for forgiveness again. I understand exactly what you're saying.
jpbg33 wrote:I was just explaining that we get the strength from God to do right not from our selves. That in and of our selves we can not live right but when we get save the Holy Spirit is there giving us the strength we need to do right and that is the only way we can live right is though He's strength.

Agreed.
jpbg33 wrote:I am not saying that we do right to stay saved but that if we chose to make the wrong choices then we are making those choices because we have already lost our faith in God and the belief in God we have at that time is no better then the belief a demon has in Jesus.
Absolutely disagreed.

jpbg33 wrote:There is a big difference in living right and doing good and living wrong and making a mistake

Anyone can do right every once and a while but only Christians can live right all the time. Even Christians can't in and of them self's but Christians do it though the strength of the Holy Spirit.
Christians won't live right all the time because it isn't possible. Unless you can spend every moment of every day loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind without detracting for even a single moment. Can you do that?
jpbg33 wrote: Being able to live right all the time doesn't mean that you will not sin but if you do sin you will repent and stop sinning.
If you sin then you can't live right all the time. Your definition of "living right all the time" is still occasionally sinning but then repenting? So during the moment you're sinning you're "living right?" How is that "all the time?"

See how this is a contradiction?

We are justified by grace alone through faith alone.
We aren't justified by grace alone through faith alone + living right. This means that you play a role in your salvation beyond putting faith in Christ. It IS a work. Plain and simple. Grace is a gift, not a wage. You don't have to earn it to keep it as you're stating.
I don't know who taught you your theology, but it certainly isn't grace.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#336

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:50 am

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

So if you do not keep the faith unto the end your not going to heaven


So you wont to know the deferens in living right and not living right.

Living right doesn't mean we will not make a mistake. We are humans and sometime we get distracted by things in the world. We should fallow the Spirit always as Christians but we most likely will not. That doesn't mean we do not love God But rather that we have gotten distracted and when we find our selves distracted and repent we are doing that because we love God and have faith in Him and want to do his will(living right) , but if when we find our selves distracted and we do not repent it is because we have lost our love for God and our faith in Him and we are now pleasing our faith in our selves(not living right). Faith in our selves will not get us to heaven only faith in God will.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#337

Post by UsagiTsukino » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:52 pm

I have a question has a Christan I try and pray to understand the bible would god hate for not believing what most Christians beliefs are?

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Re: Eternal Security...

#338

Post by Rob » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:00 pm

UsagiTsukino wrote:I have a question has a Christan I try and pray to understand the bible would god hate for not believing what most Christians beliefs are?
If any question starts with "Will God hate me for...?" the answer is probably no.
I guess I would encourage you to continue to pray for understanding and more than that- pray to have your own feelings changed to more closely match the will of God. Less of your will, more of His.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#339

Post by crochet1949 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:27 pm

The concern Should be to want to understand Scripture as God would have us understand it -- not especially to agree with what other Christians believe. So we would be praying for the Holy Spirit to give us understand of what we're reading.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#340

Post by LittleHamster » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:47 am

I reckon this is relevant and rather concise.....




"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ." John 3:36

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

We are NOT saved by WORKS
The Bible makes it clear that OUR WORKS has nothing whatsoever to do with our salvation.

We don't receive it by our works — and we don't keep it by our works!

" NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,. . ." Titus 3:5

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9

Salvation is a FREE GIFT
Salvation is the free gift of God. If we had to work to keep it — it would not be a free gift — and God would be a liar!

". . . the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

". . .by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18

Salvation is a NEW BIRTH.
Salvation is not enduring or a process, but an event in time. Salvation is a NEW BIRTH. Just as your first birth happened on a certain time and day, so does the second birth.

"(For he saith, I have heard thee in a TIME accepted, and in THE DAY OF SALVATION have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted TIME; behold, now is THE DAY OF SALVATION.)" 2 Corinthians 6:2

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

"Being BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23

You become a CHILD OF GOD
Once you are born again SPIRITUALLY — you become a child of God.

"Beloved, NOW are we the SONS OF GOD, . . ." 1 John 3:2

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, FATHER." Romans 8:15

Nothing can SEPARATE us from our Father
Just as nothing can "negate" your physical birth, nothing can "negate" your spiritual birth.

My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually — God becomes your Father — nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken!

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29

Jesus will NEVER leave us
Jesus promised He will never leave us. Jesus could not say this if there was even a chance of losing our salvation.

". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

We already HAVE eternal life
When the Bible speaks of possessing eternal life, it speaks in the present tense (hath, have, etc.) — SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE! If we had to work or endure to keep our salvation, this could not be true.

"He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:.. ." John 3:36

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ." John 5:24

Jesus will NOT cast you out
". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

We are COMPLETE in Jesus Christ
"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:" Colossians 2:10

We are PERFECTED FOR EVER
We are "perfected for ever" by Jesus Christ. How could the Lord say such a bold statement if we had to earn or keep our salvation?

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. . . For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOR EVER them that are sanctified." Hebrews 10:10,14

We are PRESERVED in Christ Jesus
"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED IN JESUS CHRIST, and called:" Jude 1

"And THE LORD. . . WILL PRESERVE ME unto his heavenly kingdom:. . ." 2 Timothy 4:18

We are KEPT by the POWER of God
"Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5

"Now unto him that is able TO KEEP YOU from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy," Jude 24

We are saved to the UTTERMOST
"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the UTTERMOST that come unto God by him,. . ." Hebrews 7:25

We are SEALED until the day of redemption
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30

". . .after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13

What about the BACKSLIDER?
What about the "backslider" or somebody that forsakes the Lord? The Bible says he will suffer loss (rewards, etc.) — but he himself shall be saved!

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

We become the BODY OF CHRIST
"For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones." Ephesians 5:30

"Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST, and members in particular." 1 Corinthians 12:18

What if we later — BELIEVE NOT?
Our salvation is so secure — even if we BELIEVE NOT after we're saved, because we become part of Him (the body of Christ), ". . .yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF."

"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF." 2 Timothy 2:13

But what if I sin an awful sin?
1 Corinthians 5 reports of an awful sin in the church. And even though Paul commands ". . . To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" — Paul still speaks of that person being saved — ". . .that the spirit MAY BE SAVED. . ."

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5

To lose your salvation — makes God a LIAR
With all the PROMISES from God to KEEP you, to SAVE you, to PRESERVE you — to even suggest you could lose your salvation — is to call God a LIAR!
". . .he that BELIEVETH NOT GOD hath made him a LIAR; . . ." 1 John 5:10

Why do people doubt their salvation?
They trust in feelings rather than the word of God.

"He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:. . ." Proverbs 28:26
They are confused by the simplicity of salvation.

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from THE SIMPLICITY that is in Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:3
They trust in tradition or church teachings rather than the word of God.

"Making the word of God of none effect through your TRADITION,. . ." Mark 7:13
They trust in their own righteousness.

". . . and all OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSES are as filthy rags;. . ." Isaiah 64:6
They misapply and misunderstand scriptures.

They misapply scriptures such as Matthew 24:13, Hebrews 10:26 to the church age of grace, when they doctrinally apply to the tribulation or the millenium. They have NEVER been saved.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;. . ." Matthew 7:21

(source: http://www.av1611.org/etern.html)
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Re: Eternal Security...

#341

Post by crochet1949 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:36 pm

That IS very concise and straight-forward. Thanks for sharing. :esmile:

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Re: Eternal Security...

#342

Post by jpbg33 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:21 am

People don't seem to understand or they just want to tell everyone that they are saved when they are not.

the bible says you are 100% God's or 0% He will not accept 99%

we are not saved because of what we do we are saved because of our faith is 100% we do not keep salvation because of what we do we keep it because our faith is 100%

Now we live according to our faith if we have faith in God then our lives bring forth good fruit but if our faith is in our selves then we bring forth evil fruit.

God said that the wages of sin is death so when we come to a point in our lives that we are tempted to sin. Then if we have our faith in God. Then we will think in our hearts that if I sin I will die. So we will not do it because the only reason we are tempted to do it in the first place is because we think it will make life easier, but if we have our faith in our selves we will do the sin because we do not believe that what God said was true and sin want kill us but it will make life easier.

So if you believe in Jesus the bible says you get eternal life and you do, and if after you are saved you sin then God doesn't take it from you but you have just killed it because God said that the wages of sin is death. It is just like when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of good and evil they killed there eternal life. We will kill our eternal life if we sin because the wages of sin is death.

So we are not saved by good works nor do we stay saved by good work but if we are saved we will do good work and if we are not doing good work then we are not saved

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Re: Eternal Security...

#343

Post by RickD » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:59 am

jpbg wrote:
we are not saved because of what we do we are saved because of our faith is 100% we do not keep salvation because of what we do we keep it because our faith is 100%
So, what happens if someone who is saved loses faith? Or if someone who is saved, has doubts? According to your theology, does that mean his faith is no longer 100%, and he loses salvation?
So if you believe in Jesus the bible says you get eternal life and you do, and if after you are saved you sin then God doesn't take it from you but you have just killed it because God said that the wages of sin is death. It is just like when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of good and evil they killed there eternal life. We will kill our eternal life if we sin because the wages of sin is death.
So, according to your theology, we can kill(lose) eternal life if we sin?
So as long as we perform up to perfection, we can have eternal life.
And again, your theology is a works/performance based theology, and is a false gospel.

It is against scripture. And you are preaching heresy.
So we are not saved by good works nor do we stay saved by good work but if we are saved we will do good work and if we are not doing good work then we are not saved
And round and round the heresy goes, where it stops, does anyone know?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Eternal Security...

#344

Post by Rob » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:13 am

jpbg33 wrote: we are not saved because of what we do we are saved because of our faith is 100% we do not keep salvation because of what we do we keep it because our faith is 100%
Actually it's Jesus that saves us.

Notice how you say it's nothing WE do, but then go on to say it's because of something we do (having faith). And apparently to have 100% faith according to you is to never sin, which would be a work.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#345

Post by crochet1949 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:39 am

So it seems to be a question of What is Faith -- Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for ; the evidence of things not seen." Vs 3 is a good example of 'faith' -- By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of thins which are visible.
We're accepting what God's Word says about creation and when scientists try to dampen our Faith in Scripture -- we are to place our Faith in God's Word being True.

The question about a person loosing their faith. Doubting God's Word -- people go through Bad situations and question Why God allowed 'that' to happen. But loosing faith being equated with loosing salvation / No. But maybe That would be an indication that the person wasn't truly 'saved' in the first place. Have some gotten caught up with 'easy believism'? Or the works we Want to do as a result OF salvation being confused with 'good works' that some believe are part Of salvation.

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