Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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melanie
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Re: Eternal Security...

#181

Post by melanie » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:54 pm

Well then guess we are all going to the fire and flames.

I made meatballs the other day and my daughter asked me if I put vegetables in them. I said no. I lied, I had grated zucchini in them, I knew she wouldn't eat them if she knew.

Guess I'm unsaved then

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Re: Eternal Security...

#182

Post by RickD » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:02 pm

melanie wrote:Well then guess we are all going to the fire and flames.

I made meatballs the other day and my daughter asked me if I put vegetables in them. I said no. I lied, I had grated zucchini in them, I knew she wouldn't eat them if she knew.

Guess I'm unsaved then
You are evil! :twisted:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Eternal Security...

#183

Post by Audie » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:20 pm

melanie wrote:Well then guess we are all going to the fire and flames.

I made meatballs the other day and my daughter asked me if I put vegetables in them. I said no. I lied, I had grated zucchini in them, I knew she wouldn't eat them if she knew.

Guess I'm unsaved then
I dont cover my hair.
Another thing the illimitable maker of all hates.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#184

Post by B. W. » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:33 pm

Byblos wrote:
B. W. wrote:I like what Jesus' says in...

John 6:37-39, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." NASB

In that is one should trust. The scriptures mentions only two kinds of folks, children of God/light and children of darkness/devil, there is no third party ever mentioned. Those who are saved, as Jesus says, cannot fall away because they are sealed forever by the Holy Spirit. The others that do were never saved to begin with... simple as that
So how do we tell the difference? 8) :poke:
Known only to God and the person...

All Christians will notice a change going on the inside and they are transformed as 2 Co 3:18 states. You mentioned to me be before that you are not the same as you were before you were saved and I do see that change in you over these past few years.

What should be ask here to the readers is this: Tell us how you know you are saved?

...and are you the same old person you were before becoming born again?

I am not and will never return to that old life. That is why God only knows and the person knows because they know the Lord and are known by Him. So, if a person remains the same, year after year living their old life - well a tree is know by its fruit - either that is true of isn't. Therefore, I humbly would suggest that it is not wise to teach apathy as the normal christian life. Nor is it wise to teach that one has to maintain good works to keep themselves saved either because if you do not, one will lose the gift of salvation given by God. If one could lose this gift then the bible is proved not true as it contradicts the principles found in Romans 11:29 as well as Hebrews 13:8

So again, maybe readers can chime in and tell us if they are the same sinner now as they were before they were saved or if they noticed personal change out of the darkness that once had them bound. So, let me be the first...

For me, I became saved praying - Jesus I am yours, save me, I never want to go back to that awful place. I didn't have all the theology and baggage about if faith means mental persuasion only or a more active faith of learning from Christ as Matt 11: 28,29,30 mentions. I found rest that has never left no matter how rough the road of life becomes instead. What I found is transformation out of the darkness' dysfunction I once thought as normal into a new freedom best described living in light that helps me overcome and aid others on their journey of faith. I discovered a joinery that teaches me faith in Christ as my only source of life. None of my actions or deeds will keep me saved or prove I am saved to anyone, however, I do know if ISIS comes, they do have enough evidence to kill me as a Christian. I cannot hide my faith as faith is a journey as it takes a lifetime to learn lessons that change us daily. Far too often I hear from folks when I ask, do you go to church, they answer, "I would go if it were not for the Christians there."

I ask, why is that Lord - and the best answer I find is that folks are too busy arguing over verbal semantics that serve to justify that it is okay to remain as the world and wallow in its glory cause you have your fire insurance paid in full. What Jesus went thru on the cross to some is mere words to memorize. Yet, to know what he went thru to redeem a sorry lot called humanity does something to you and that is this - we love God because he first loved us in a manner that shows.

Sinless perfection in this life is false. You cannot earn salvation, nor do good enough to stay saved either. His blood shed and the agony he went thru assures us he will not let us go because so great a price was paid. Jesus said in John 6:37 sums it all up. We are changed out of darkness, and if not, then one is not his at all. This change will be seen by others only in brief glimpses but this change is known to the one so changed by God's hand and by God himself. We who are saved are being set free, one sin at a time and day at a time.

I find that true. I see folks who were once drunks, meth addicts, abusers, neglecters of of family, pompous twits, addicts of every kind, etc and etc, become born again and they never return to that old nature. Yet, if I am hearing folks correctly here that it is perfectly okay to remain as they were. Wow, I read and know personally of the power of the gospel at work in the miracles of changed lives everywhere. So am I hearing a mocking of this as hogwash? Well have what you like - I choose life, learning of him, being changed day by day for the better and not the worse. I have assurance and know that I am saved that transcends all life events and whatever it dishes out. I know my Creator and he knows me.

So how do you know if you are saved? Are you the same as your unsaved days or do you find yourself at least being changed by God's grace a little? That is known only to you and God and those closet to you.
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Re: Eternal Security...

#185

Post by RickD » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:11 pm

Audie wrote:
melanie wrote:Well then guess we are all going to the fire and flames.

I made meatballs the other day and my daughter asked me if I put vegetables in them. I said no. I lied, I had grated zucchini in them, I knew she wouldn't eat them if she knew.

Guess I'm unsaved then
I dont cover my hair.
Another thing the illimitable maker of all hates.
And you wear clothes with mixed fabrics. Don't forget that too. y#-o
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Eternal Security...

#186

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:30 pm

melanie wrote:Well then guess we are all going to the fire and flames.

I made meatballs the other day and my daughter asked me if I put vegetables in them. I said no. I lied, I had grated zucchini in them, I knew she wouldn't eat them if she knew.

Guess I'm unsaved then
:lol: Been there... thankfully zucchini is something my two eldest have always been willing to eat.
Good luck getting any other vegetables into them though.

It's like trying to feed a dog a worming tablet in its food.
Somehow they eat the food and always manage to spit out the tablet.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Eternal Security...

#187

Post by Audie » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:55 pm

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
melanie wrote:Well then guess we are all going to the fire and flames.

I made meatballs the other day and my daughter asked me if I put vegetables in them. I said no. I lied, I had grated zucchini in them, I knew she wouldn't eat them if she knew.

Guess I'm unsaved then
I dont cover my hair.
Another thing the illimitable maker of all hates.
And you wear clothes with mixed fabrics. Don't forget that too. y#-o
Grim and melancholy doom doth on fiery wing, swift o'ertake
the wearer of the cotton / nylon blend.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#188

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:48 pm

Audie wrote:I dont cover my hair.
Another thing the illimitable maker of all hates.
Only because it makes men think sexual thoughts and we all know the illimitable maker is male. Right? :shock:
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Eternal Security...

#189

Post by LittleHamster » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:25 pm

Some small observations worth mentioning (and these are more or less, generalizations) :-

- those that are saved can tell, after a while, if someone else is saved or not-saved just by meeting them.

- those that are not-saved cannot tell if someone else is saved or not-saved.

- those that are saved, generally know that salvation is irreversible.

- those that are not-saved, do not not know for sure either way if their salvation is permanent or not-permanent as they only draw their conclusions from written material and/or they are still in a state of confusion to varying degrees (i.e., they are still under the law).

- those that are saved are under Grace (and know it directly).

- those that are saved realize that their guardian angel no longer works against them but works with them.

- those that are saved receive a second birth in spirit.

- those that are saved receive a gift or two from the holy spirit.

- those that are saved may be given authority to help save those that are not-saved.

- those that are saved and temporarily unwise would write something like this in a forum (as it carries a risk of alienating those that are not-saved from those that are saved. On the upside, it gives a little info to the not-saved on what happens when one is saved).

- those that are not-saved but are approaching salvation are sometimes in a state of high-anxiety and will argue incessantly with those who are saved. **

- those who have been just-saved realize that the bible is just the starting point of a much greater journey and therefore learn very quickly that it's sometimes better to keep quiet and start listening to others rather than post pages and pages of argumentative-rhetoric on public forums. **

- those that are not-saved would not know to write this.






** these 2 points are placed here primarily for entertainment purposes - please don't be too offended by them
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Re: Eternal Security...

#190

Post by jpbg33 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:46 am

Personally I do not care if people believe one saved always saved. Because it doesn't matter if you can loose it or not. As long as you are saved when you die you will go to heaven. What I have a problem with is people saying it doesn't matter if we sin because God for gives us any ways. The bible dose not teach that it is ok for Christians to sin. That is peoples reasoning not Gods and even if you can sin it is horrible when you do even if you are still going to heaven. I believe you can backslid and that doesn't mean I am saved or that I am not saved and people believing you can not backslid dose not make them saved or not saved either. That has nothing to do with someone salvation. The biggest point that I am trying to get across is that the bible says if you are saved you will not sin, if you are saved you do not sin and if you say you are saved and still sin you are a liar. The bible say if you love me then keep my commandments. The bible says to walk in Jesus's steps. The bible says be not conformed unto this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may know what is go and acceptable will of God. I could go on and on. It is not a matter of if we can sin or not (and we may make mistakes along the way if we do Jesus is our advocate) but we will not live a sinful life after we are saved. The bible does not say to think it is acceptable to sin but rather to shun the very appearance of evil.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#191

Post by Rob » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:55 am

You were fine until you said this:
jpbg33 wrote:The biggest point that I am trying to get across is that the bible says if you are saved you will not sin, if you are saved you do not sin and if you say you are saved and still sin you are a liar.
Yet you admit to sinning still. So I guess...you're not saved then?

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Re: Eternal Security...

#192

Post by jpbg33 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:14 am

What I said is the bible says those things it does right. What I believe it is saying is that we will not live a sinful life but our love for God will cause us to wont to please God and if it is not causing us to wont to please God some thing is wrong and we need to make sure we really are saved or that we are still saved either way I don't really care if you think one save always saved that is not the point. But if we think it is exemptible for us to sin something is wrong.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#193

Post by Rob » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:35 am

No one here is saying that it's ok to "live in sin" after being saved. And I would agree with you that living in sin isn't good evidence of salvation for sure. The person likely needs Christ. We're just saying that you will continue to sin even after being saved because you still have flesh. Not saying you shouldn't try. Not saying you shouldn't feel bad. Nobody is saying that.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#194

Post by jpbg33 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:51 am

I almost agree totally with what you said but I do think it is possible to live a sinless life after you are saved not that anyone will but the possibility is there. Because the bible says in every temptation God gives us a way out so if we have a way out every time then it is possible to live with out sin after we are saved but not probable. Other then the fact that we have to sin I do agree.

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Re: Eternal Security...

#195

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:04 am

jpbg33 wrote:I almost agree totally with what you said but I do think it is possible to live a sinless life after you are saved not that anyone will but the possibility is there. Because the bible says in every temptation God gives us a way out so if we have a way out every time then it is possible to live with out sin after we are saved but not probable. Other then the fact that we have to sin I do agree.
Let's see. You think it's possible to live a sinless life...

And the bible says in 1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.


And Ecclesiates 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.


Do you still think it's possible to not sin? Or are you starting to see that maybe you are interpreting scripture wrong?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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