Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
Post Reply
User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 188 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#91

Post by Storyteller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:38 pm

That could mean in Heaven though.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

jpbg33
Senior Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#92

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:45 pm

That couldn't be talking about people in heaven. It was just saying that people that are going around sinning that they are not Christians.

User avatar
Rob
Valued Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:26 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Eternal Security...

#93

Post by Rob » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:53 pm

jpbg33 wrote:That couldn't be talking about people in heaven. It was just saying that people that are going around sinning that they are not Christians.
So, according to your interpretation of 1 John, every time you sin then you are not saved?

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 188 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#94

Post by Storyteller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:53 pm

That's your interpretation of it.

So you're saying that if you are a Christian you don't sin? Sorry but we wil al sin. We are not God and only God does not sin.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21644
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 203 times
Been liked: 1110 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#95

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:05 pm

jpbg33 wrote:One place is here "1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ".
If that means that Christians don't sin, then how do you explain the contradiction with 1 John 1:8-9?

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

jpbg33
Senior Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#96

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:11 pm

You can look at this way to why should we confess our sins if he is going to forgive them any ways. That verse is another reason I think it is possible to backslide. I do think that we make mistakes as Christians but the attitude that it doesn't matter is what I believe a real Christian will not have. Will be trying to living right because he loves God.
Last edited by jpbg33 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21644
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 203 times
Been liked: 1110 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#97

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:13 pm

jpbg33 wrote:You can look at this way to why should we confess our sins if he is going to forgive them any ways. That verse is another reason I think it is possible to backslide.
I agree that believers can and do backslide. But backsliding is not the same as losing salvation.

And, you didn't tell me how you reconcile the contradiction. Any answer?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Rob
Valued Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:26 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Eternal Security...

#98

Post by Rob » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:14 pm

jpbg33 wrote:You can look at this way to why should we confess our sins if he is going to forgive them any ways. That verse is another reason I think it is possible to backslide.
And does backsliding cause Him to lose you or were you never given to Him in the first place if you backslide?

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 188 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#99

Post by Storyteller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:19 pm

jpbg33 wrote:You can look at this way to why should we confess our sins if he is going to forgive them any ways. That verse is another reason I think it is possible to backslide. I do think that we make mistakes as Christians but the attitude that it doesn't matter is what I believe a real Christian will not have. Will be trying to living right because he loves God.
By confessing our sin we asking for forgiveness. We have to ask Him to firgive us, He does nothing uninvited.

Nobody is saying when we sin it doesn't matter merely that we are forgiven and cannot lose salvation if we trust Christ.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21644
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 203 times
Been liked: 1110 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#100

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:22 pm

jpbg33 wrote:You can look at this way to why should we confess our sins if he is going to forgive them any ways. That verse is another reason I think it is possible to backslide. I do think that we make mistakes as Christians but the attitude that it doesn't matter is what I believe a real Christian will not have. Will be trying to living right because he loves God.
Answer this question. And you don't have to post the answer here. Just ask yourself. Are you trying to live right every moment of every day? Be honest. If not, then by your definition, you are not saved.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

jpbg33
Senior Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#101

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:25 pm

I Think it is like the prodigal son when he asked his Father for all that was to be his and walked away. He had free will so the Father let him go. The Father didn't get him out of the pig pin he got up him self and went back to the Father who was waiting for him at the Fathers house. If he would have died in the pig pin he would have never made it back to the Fathers house.

jpbg33
Senior Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#102

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:27 pm

If we do not care what he think and are not trying to pleas him then why would care about his forgiveness.

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 188 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#103

Post by Storyteller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:33 pm

Is that not a parable, to demonstrate a point? The point being rejoicing in those that return.

Nobody is saying they don't care or that they don't try. We sre saying our actions and deds do not save us.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

jpbg33
Senior Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:04 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#104

Post by jpbg33 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:46 pm

That is exactly what I am saying it is not our work it is our faith but if we have faith we will have works because faith bringeth forth works and if we loose our faith then we will stop working. Not only are we not saved by works but we can not do works with out solvation.

User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK
Has liked: 188 times
Been liked: 340 times

Re: Eternal Security...

#105

Post by Storyteller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:57 pm

Not necessarily. We don't magically transform. All we can do is our bedt to follow Christ.
I disagree about works without salvation. I think there are people who try and live like Christ without necessarily being Christian.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

Post Reply