jpbg33 wrote: I do not care what some person said in a video. The bible says to let God be true and all men a liar.
abelcainsbrother wrote: There is no need to read a link when you have a bible to read.Do not go on man's opinions go with what God's word says.
So then we should throw out 2000 years of Christian doctrine, many writings which have inspired people and have converted people, many writings which have been written by scholars which have caused people joy and thousands to become scientists, theologians, mission workers and Bible believing Christians? We should not discuss concepts found at internet links and in videos because it may cause people to think a different way? That sounds very cultish to me. A cult is any organization that does not allow its members to question it's doctrine. Christianity is not a cult.
I included the video by Mr. Fudge, not because I agree with everything he says but because he is lawyer, theologian, Christian writer and apologist and he has been studying the concept of Hell for over 50 years. But hey, if you are not going to even watch because you are so set that your way is right and the only way and dismiss it entirely, then there is probably not much for me to discuss, nor will I want to. But I will say this.
There are just over 400 verses found in the Bible regarding the future of the wicked. 393 of those verses claim that the wicked are annihilated and destroyed after death. The remaining verses point to unending conscious torment. I find it hard to believe that an exegesis can be made to claim that those 393 verses are somehow, in someway, irrelevant to the topic and that the only verses that matter are the few verses that back up the unending conscious torment worldview. What you will find after studying all the verses, is a description of a fire that consumes and not the traditionalist Hell view.
As Fudges's video pointed out and I completely agree with the points I will mention here, you will not find any description of the traditional concept of Hell in the Old Testament. You will not find traditional Hell concepts in Acts, where you would most expect to find it, seeing as the apostles went out preaching Christ's message. Neither will you find traditional Hell doctrine in the earliest writings of the Christian church in the late first and early second centuries by people who were either taught by or indirectly knew the apostles before human traditions began to usurp Christ's teachings.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If I believe in God's Son Jesus Christ, is that going to prevent me from perishing? Certainly not. My flesh body is going to die or perish one day. And as much as I love Jesus, my love for Him is not going to prevent my physical death. Therefore the verse is not speaking of physical death. It is speaking of the death and the perishing of of the soul. If I believed in the traditional concept of Hell, I would interpret the verse this way:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not consciously burn forever in tormenting Eternal fire
but have everlasting life."
But Jesus does not say that. He says "perish". Jesus juxtaposes eternal life with perishing or dying. Jesus does not juxtapose eternal life with conscious unending torment.
Do Jp and Abel believe that the word perish in John 3:16 means something other than perishing?
Here's what R F Weymouth, Greek scholar and New Testament translator said. I do not know if it will matter, after all you both said do not listen to the word of man, even if they are scholars in the faith you believe in.
"My mind fails to conceive of a grosser misinterpretation of language, then when the five or six strongest words that the Greek tongue possesses signifying perish, destroy or destruction are explained away to mean something quite the opposite; of maintaining an everlasting and wretched existence. To translate black as white is nothing to this".
Maybe Jp and Abel can explain the parts of these following verses I underlined.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die.
The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Well it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you know you gotta serve somebody. Bob Dylan
Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37