Details of Heaven

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
Starhunter
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Re: Details of Heaven

#31

Post by Starhunter » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:12 am

Some people like the opposite, an open level plain, or a valley surrounded with high mountains/forests.

The most popular stars in the Bible are in the constellation of Orion.
Orion is an old name meaning hunter, or great hunter.
Nimrod was named that in the Bible, from memory he was the son of Ham, son of Noah.
Traditionally in the legends of Bedouin Arabs, it was said that Nimrod and his clan built the pyramids at Cairo.

The traditional story is rare, but it goes something like this - Nimrod built the first five cities of civilization after the flood, he also attempted to make a world empire, with the tower of Babel its economical and philosophical center.
Fortunately, he failed this project, and awakening to his mortality, he made the pyramids in an effort to get to heaven.
Nimrod knew about the tree of life in heaven, and also about space travel before the flood, and reckoned that if he could enter heaven he would find immortality by eating the elixir of life. The pyramids are said to be the gates to heaven.
Noah warned Nimrod not to use the ancient ways of travel, and did not tell him, so Nimrod talked with his father Ham who lived in the upper plains of Egypt, originally called the land of Ham. After that Nimrod constructed the pyramids with the intention of shunting himself to heaven -.

There are several different versions of what happened to him after that, but all agree he did not make it.

While many wonder in amazement at these buildings, they are symbols of failure, of man to gain heaven without repentance.

And the ancient Sumerians also called the pyramids star gates or gates to heaven. In other cultures, such as the more recent Maya, they are called the places where people disappear, or fly. At various times throughout history nearly everybody knew about these strange kind of activities. I heard an old North American Native woman describe it as "the men used to go up there (- a mountain -) to fly but not like the birds." In modern times these Natives as well as the Australian Aborigines were the last to know what the ancients did, before they were scattered and displaced by genocide, disease and politics.

Some archaeologists have made correlations between the aerial pattern of the pyramids and the stars of Orion.
More about Orion later.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#32

Post by Starhunter » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:32 pm

The constellation of Orion is very easily recognized in the night sky, and it can be observed in most parts of the world.
There are three stars in a row near the equinox, and close by in the same constellation, are three smaller stars, and the middle one of those is the nebula of Orion. The apparent size of these three stars is the same as the moon and sun.

With magnification we can see that these three stars are groups of stars, and we can also see a faint glow in the central group.
Of course the colors are not apparent with the unaided eye, especially the red spectrum, but with a larger telescope you can see, blue, yellowish and green hues.

It is said that the light emanating from this nebula is increasing every year, and scientists think it may be caused by the birth of thousands of young stars in behind the dark cloud.

The nebula is caused by the reflection of great light onto the dark clouds in what is sometimes described as the opening in Orion, or rift in the clouds.

So what is behind these clouds, and what did God mean by "seek Him who made Orion," and "can you loose the bands of Orion?"
Last edited by Starhunter on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#33

Post by Starhunter » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:04 pm

If you look up the word darkness in the Bible, you'll find that it is used literally, symbolically and to denote both physical and spiritual darkness in different settings.

We know that God is light, and also a dangerous light to sinners, and that God covers Himself with darkness to protect or hide from sinners, such as He did on Sinai when came down to man.
This darkness is commonly associated with a supernatural event, such as the experience with Israel near Mt Sinai, the darkness at the cross, the Egyptian plagues, and especially the return of Christ. See 2 Samuel 22:12 KJV.

This darkness that surrounds God is quite powerful, as it is able to move the stars out of their positions and even able to darken the stars, moon and sun. Joel 2:10. Ezekiel 32:7,8. KJV.

It's interesting that the book of Job, which describes the waters we find in Genesis 1, also says "can He (God) judge through the thick cloud?" Job 22:13 KJV. And it also talks about loosening the bands of Orion. Could it mean that God is willing to let the light shine through?

If that ever happened, it would take the light at least 1600 years to reach us. Could it be that after Christ rose to become our High priest and while the earth was plunged into the dark ages, that the heavens were opening to earth?

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Re: Details of Heaven

#34

Post by Starhunter » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:45 pm

There are many more things about heaven that are found in the Bible, but they are not direct statements, such as allegories and allusions. So I will not post them, because they can be argued away.

But the clearest article in heaven is the temple, in which the throne of God currently is.

There are many references to this scene, too many to quote here, so a quick overview of the four angels around the throne will do for now. We'll have a glimpse of what the role of these angels is, in association with the throne. Sample references
are Isaiah 6, Ezekiel 1, and Revelation 4.

The throne of God is movable, it is seen by Ezekiel over Israel, it also appears in heaven in the Holy place and Most holy place in the temple, and with it are these creatures or four angels which move like lightning. It possibly appeared at Mt Sinai in the days of Moses.

Its location is always significant to what is happening between heaven and earth, and there are four angels, sometimes called beasts which stand around the throne in a square. They are called beasts because they have the faces of animals, which look like a different animal from each angle, depending on which way they are facing. The face of an angel or human faces outward and the animal characteristics always face inward and sideways. Some people find this spooky, but it is just a form or mask they use in reverence around the throne.

Each of the four faces represent one of the four quarters or divisions of tribes of the camp of Israel around the sanctuary or temple on earth.

These angels are given the task of governing or being used as instruments for every event that occurs in the universe, in regards to providence and support.
To illustrate this God gave the prophets a vision of how it works, by showing them "wheels within wheels," "great and high," "fast as lightning," and "terrible majesty," full of awareness (the eyes all over them and in the wheels) etc.
You could say that these images are like fractals which have an infinite number of divisions and expansions, all synchronized within one purpose or action.
These actions are like calendars of consequence as well, so that nothing, no matter how insignificant is missed in the providence of God.

It basically means that nothing can happen in heaven or on earth which is not accounted for, but at the same time it is never a form of control, rather a guarantee of freedom and justice, and we know that the one power which drives these infinite Providences is love.

The visions of this scene of the throne are always given before or at the time of an impending crisis, so that God's people can be certain that God overrules.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#35

Post by Starhunter » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:56 pm

I have been reading some visions that Ellen G White had of heaven, and I am totally amazed and cannot express in words what i have been introduced to.
She confirms so many details that I have researched for years and wondered about.

http://www.imsmedia.org/downloads/doc_v ... llen-white

Chapter 2 "The Creation" PDF page 16 on the margin marker, or page 44.

This is her account of what God showed her about the garden of Eden, which is a picture of heaven, because the earth will finally be restored to a paradise.

If the trees or vines had both fruit and blossoms on them, it means that the climate could be aseasonal, and that fruits are always available in different stages of growth and ripening. What a beautiful presentation of food, both visually and aromatically, the blossoms intermingled by fruit in different stages of color and size.

I have heard of the epicenter of heaven, that is the pinnacle, as being a country that bears all seasons at once.

The tree of life, for eg, has 12 seasons, one for each kind of fruit (Ezekiel and Revelation). Ellen saw the tree on earth at a time, possibly a season when it had fruit with the appearance of gold mixed with silver.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#36

Post by crochet1949 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:45 pm

God's Word tells us what is needed to know about the New Jerusalem -- it's His creation.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#37

Post by Starhunter » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:20 pm

crochet1949 wrote:God's Word tells us what is needed to know about the New Jerusalem -- it's His creation.
Absolutely, it's a real place. Real air/atmosphere, plants, mountains, plains, lakes and rivers. Just like it is on earth now and especially once was.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#38

Post by Elias » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:48 am

Dear Starhunter,
here a link to a little booklet titled 'The Secret of Orion', talking about heaven, the New Jerusalem etc.
Probably most of it won't be new for you, but it is something nice to share..
It includes some of the visions of Ellen G. White as well.

http://revelation1412.org/files/7113/59 ... _ORION.pdf

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Re: Details of Heaven

#39

Post by Starhunter » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:19 am

Elias wrote:Dear Starhunter,
here a link to a little booklet titled 'The Secret of Orion', talking about heaven, the New Jerusalem etc.
Probably most of it won't be new for you, but it is something nice to share..
It includes some of the visions of Ellen G. White as well.

http://revelation1412.org/files/7113/59 ... _ORION.pdf
What can I say? Totally amazing.
I am convinced Ellen White is a true prophet, there is nothing she states which I have not read in the Bible.
I have read about 6 books so far, no one could have that much knowledge and inspiration, no one.
For instance, I have wondered about the space of half an hour in Revelation, the silence in heaven which amounts to 7 days in prophetic time, she says in the article of the above link that we will be ascending to heaven for 7 days. Could this be when heaven is empty and silent, because they are all near the earth to pick us up? Revelation 8:1.

Many years ago, I read an article written by Satanists, and they claim that Orion is their symbol of darkness or their enemy, and that there are people on earth who are associated with it. But if God mentions it directly three times in scripture? These comments of Ellen White make sense, because Orion was anciently associated with light. the light of heaven, and heaven itself - even God.
The city of God comes down from heaven through this constellation? - that is just mind boggling, and I am certain true - John saw it in vision.
If Ellen was Satanic as some claim, she would not honor Christ in her writings. I have read large portions of the her book on Christ called "the Desire of Ages." I am lost for words.

I am so impressed. Thank you so much.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#40

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:04 am

Starhunter wrote:
I am convinced Ellen White is a true prophet, there is nothing she states which I have not read in the Bible.
You sure about that?

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Prophet ... fault.aspx
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#41

Post by Starhunter » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:13 am

RickD wrote:
Starhunter wrote:
I am convinced Ellen White is a true prophet, there is nothing she states which I have not read in the Bible.
You sure about that?

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Prophet ... fault.aspx
I am so grateful you introduced me to Ellen White in the first place, even though you have a different opinion about her.

I have checked out the site linked above, and found no contradictions or lies that they propose she wrote, but I picked up fairly quickly that the contributors to this site are full of hate, and so I expected exaggerations and misquotes to come from apostate and disenchanted Seventh Day Adventists. I don't know their story - why they hate Ellen, but I have also read of her predictions (in "selected messages" books 1, 2 and 3.) about these sort of people and what they would say about her works, long before they did it, so it is kind of miraculous that they are fulfilling that measure. She also writes in detail what would be done to her books by the same publishers of her original writings.

Just to illustrate how low they are intellectually, they say that her quote about seeing Enoch on another planet which had seven moons applied to Jupiter or Saturn. But as you and I know, there is probably no life whatsoever on these planets and besides they have many more moons than seven. I doubt her vision was about our solar system. They are using their own poor knowledge as proof that she made a lie, when she did not say that it was Jupiter or Saturn by any means, she states "I was taken in vision to other worlds that God has created." That was in conjunction with visions of heaven, which is at least 1300 light years away from our sun.

I would not give any credit to their miserable campaign.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#42

Post by EssentialSacrifice » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:18 am

Starhunter, would it be off base to divert, even momentarily from the physical description of Heaven and the actual of Heaven... that is the complete spiritual "feelings" of Heaven. Apologies if this sidetracking is disturbing, but I am more interested in what will be rather than in the how it is or is shaped or is paramatized.

This, from Maria Valtorta is a mystical experience regarding her spiritual journey with the Lord, taken to Heaven ...

Run, my soul, not with physical steps, but with affection and desire, because you expect, not only the angels and saints, but also the Lord and Master of angels and saints. Father God expects you to appoint you heir to all goods and to make you partaker of His goodness and delight. How is the joy of victory, all that you have suffered on earth will become eternal joy.
Then with your exultant lips you will praise the Lord your God for all these things saying, Your mercy, Lord, I want to sing forever. Nothing is more joyful than this song, which will rise in praise of the glory of Christ, whose blood has redeemed us. What tongue can tell, or what mind can understand how is the joy of supernatural city, the joy of participating with the choirs of angels, to be part of the most holy heavenly spirits, of the Creator's glory and never to depart from the extremely happy company of the blessed; exult always with them and their joy. There the love of the righteous will be joyful and perfect. Only babbling is possible to echo the sublime realities of God, and the heart that is set only once in heavenly things immediately understand that it is nothing what once seemed sublime. When you get to that place then you will begin with a heart full of joy, to say with St. Peter: "Lord, how good it is here" (Mt 17,4). Here are the father, the mother, the sister, the brother, the eye will see an incomparable beauty, the taste will experience the sweetest taste. The smell will perceive a soft perfume, the touch will embrace the most delicious realities, the ear will be recreated in remarkable harmony. Who could tell how much joy, the wonderful glory ineffable praise that will experience, having mastered manfully the body with the shield of chastity and continence, having overcome the world, fleeing temptation.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: Details of Heaven

#43

Post by RickD » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:28 am

Starhunter wrote:
RickD wrote:
Starhunter wrote:
I am convinced Ellen White is a true prophet, there is nothing she states which I have not read in the Bible.
You sure about that?

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Prophet ... fault.aspx
I am so grateful you introduced me to Ellen White in the first place, even though you have a different opinion about her.

I have checked out the site linked above, and found no contradictions or lies that they propose she wrote, but I picked up fairly quickly that the contributors to this site are full of hate, and so I expected exaggerations and misquotes to come from apostate and disenchanted Seventh Day Adventists. I don't know their story - why they hate Ellen, but I have also read of her predictions (in "selected messages" books 1, 2 and 3.) about these sort of people and what they would say about her works, long before they did it, so it is kind of miraculous that they are fulfilling that measure. She also writes in detail what would be done to her books by the same publishers of her original writings.

Just to illustrate how low they are intellectually, they say that her quote about seeing Enoch on another planet which had seven moons applied to Jupiter or Saturn. But as you and I know, there is probably no life whatsoever on these planets and besides they have many more moons than seven. I doubt her vision was about our solar system. They are using their own poor knowledge as proof that she made a lie, when she did not say that it was Jupiter or Saturn by any means, she states "I was taken in vision to other worlds that God has created." That was in conjunction with visions of heaven, which is at least 1300 light years away from our sun.

I would not give any credit to their miserable campaign.
If you don't want to see, I can't force you. But I'm sure others reading this will be willing to be cautious and use discernment when reading anything from Ellen White. And actually it becomes pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of discernment, that when they read her writings, they can see where it deviates from scripture.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Details of Heaven

#44

Post by dfnj » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:43 pm

Starhunter wrote:Galatians 4:26 talks about what is later described in Revelation as the New Jerusalem, the city "where God dwells."

At some time in the future, this city comes down and rests on earth. Paradise restored.

The Bible denotes heaven to be a physical place, comparable to earth and nowhere suggests floating fissures of a ghost land.

So in that light, what are the dimensions of this place, this country or city and can we collect enough information from the Bible, pieces of the puzzle, to create a picture far clearer than imagined?
I think when we die we are so enamored in heavenly bliss looking into the face of God we are no longer capable of having any conscious thoughts and therefore no longer experience time. We are simply absorbed into the mind of God from whence we originally came.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#45

Post by Silvertusk » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:07 am

Um.. Scripture?

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