Details of Heaven

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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Details of Heaven

#1

Post by Starhunter » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:19 pm

Galatians 4:26 talks about what is later described in Revelation as the New Jerusalem, the city "where God dwells."

At some time in the future, this city comes down and rests on earth. Paradise restored.

The Bible denotes heaven to be a physical place, comparable to earth and nowhere suggests floating fissures of a ghost land.

So in that light, what are the dimensions of this place, this country or city and can we collect enough information from the Bible, pieces of the puzzle, to create a picture far clearer than imagined?

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Re: Details of Heaven

#2

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:15 pm

It is a 1500 mile cube according to revelation 21

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Re: Details of Heaven

#3

Post by neo-x » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:20 pm

I have always thought it was all symbolic, not meant to be taken literal. But who knows.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Details of Heaven

#4

Post by Starhunter » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:56 pm

Thanks Silvertusk, I just remembered that I have to convert to miles from kilometers.

1500 miles, some say this is a circumference measure, but nothing in scripture suggests this, as other structures and land were measured, by breadth, length etc.

Now it lies square Rev 21:16, and it seems like a cube because the height is equal.

The OT often talks about the mountain of God, but never the cube, corner stone or building.

Is there a way of measuring this structure, to get an equal height without it being a cube?

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Re: Details of Heaven

#5

Post by Silvertusk » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:15 am

Starhunter wrote:Thanks Silvertusk, I just remembered that I have to convert to miles from kilometers.

1500 miles, some say this is a circumference measure, but nothing in scripture suggests this, as other structures and land were measured, by breadth, length etc.

Now it lies square Rev 21:16, and it seems like a cube because the height is equal.

The OT often talks about the mountain of God, but never the cube, corner stone or building.

Is there a way of measuring this structure, to get an equal height without it being a cube?
Only if it was a pyramid

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Re: Details of Heaven

#6

Post by Silvertusk » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:20 am

Although here is an interesting document which talks about the city.

http://www.gciweb.org/documents/Misc%20 ... 0Daily.pdf

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Re: Details of Heaven

#7

Post by Starhunter » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:14 am

What a great article.

I want to show how this cube can be shown to be a pyramid based mountain, to meet the expectations of terms like
"Mt Zion."

The angel measures the city from one standpoint without moving. We know he uses a reed to measure. In ancient times such a reed had a curve or markings on it and was held up at arms length, and then the eye followed perspective values marked on the reed to calculate distance.

While standing on one of the corners, the measurement of the height was taken along the diagonal ridge of the pyramid shape, from base to the top. As were the breadth and length.

So the height is not above sea level, or above its base level, but along its profile, and even so along the diagonal profile - the longest distance. This lowers the pyramid and lessens the steepness. Remember the city lies square, but does not stand square.

Secondly, the city is as large as Australia, or the better part of the US, by its base area only.

This means that it would be curved to accommodate the sphere of the earth.

The overall angle of incline from the edge of the city is reduced again by this curvature of the earth, because people are standing upright in alignment with the earth's spherical gravity and not a level plain facing the city. So the height of the city falls back over the horizon to some extent.

Further more, the Lord has said that the city will be built up around the edges to reduce the overall incline again. verses?

All these factors make the overall incline as low as 15 degrees in some places, and a maximum of about 27 degrees.

Just like mountains on earth.

Another indication that this may be the case, is the mention of a wall "great and high" yet only 144 cubits high.
This wall is tiny and insignificant if the height of the edge of the city was a cube 1500 miles high. But if the city falls back over the horizon because it is so wide, then this wall would be an imposition to the beholder. This model then agrees with the mountain of the Lord, Daniel 2:5, the wall height and the gates within the wall.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#8

Post by Starhunter » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:13 am

This city or mountain is also called a country Hebrews 11:10 -16.
And in many other places like Isaiah 2, it is a mountain high above all other mountains.
Not only that but the mountains - plural - of God are mentioned to be in heaven as well.
Many mountains, many valleys, and wide open spaces as we'll see.

There are plains and landscapes in heaven greater and wider than any on earth, even though this heavenly country is much smaller than earth. But not too much smaller, its diagonal measurement is about the actual width of our moon.

How do we get those wider places, if it has a square base like that of a pyramid, and even though it is rounded on top like a mountain, in between the base and the pinnacle are flat areas bigger than any plain on earth, because the earth is curved all around. These flatter areas give the illusion of being on a planet much larger than earth.

But won't it be up hill? No, the city comes down through space from heaven, without its own gravity? no. You walk on heaven and not up it. Although a mountain, it is like being on a level country with seemingly endless mountains and valleys.

Isaiah 49:10,11.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#9

Post by Philip » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:23 am

While much about Heaven currently remains necessarily speculative, the Heaven to come (where the restored earth merges with the New Heaven) will most definitely be a physical place. We are physical beings and all Christians will have a physically resurrected and transformed, eternal spiritual body. Physical bodies were designe to inhabit physical places. Jesus took on the physical and returned to Heaven, and will return to earth, in a PHYSICALLY resurrected body. The dimensions and descriptions of things in the Heaven to come are clearly physical, with physical measurements. John's visions of Heaven, in Revelation, reveal that He wasn't just TOLD about what Heaven was like, but he actually SAW it, and gave key details about what he saw. According to Scripture, there will still be nations and races in Heaven - and without our present cloak of sin, that will be a manifestation of God's glory. There will be feasts. Amazing physical attributes. And JESUS - the most important part of Heaven. And God is glorified in His creatures enjoying what He has created for them. The most beautiful, breathtakingly beautiful places on the present earth are but a shadow of their counterparts in Heaven.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#10

Post by Starhunter » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:34 am

Philip wrote:While much about Heaven currently remains necessarily speculative, the Heaven to come (where the restored earth merges with the New Heaven) will most definitely be a physical place. ... According to Scripture, there will still be nations and races in Heaven - and without our present cloak of sin, that will be a manifestation of God's glory. There will be feasts. Amazing physical attributes. And JESUS - the most important part of Heaven. And God is glorified in His creatures enjoying what He has created for them. The most beautiful, breathtakingly beautiful places on the present earth are but a shadow of their counterparts in Heaven.
That's so amazing, you've opened up many related subjects, all in scripture for more info. Of course, it will always be beyond imagination until we see it.

The best places on earth are like tastes of a better world, just remove the mosquitoes and have free food.

The city has 12 gates, 3 on each side, and there are twelve tribes, and you've also pointed out that there will be nations, mentioned many times in scripture. Could heaven have 12 countries, one for each tribe?

In the last chapters of Ezekiel, the prophet is given a vision of a planned metropolis for Israel, that would replicate the heavenly city on a smaller scale. It had 12 suburbs around a city center. That city, by the way, measures about 12 miles each side and is connected by a street to the temple or throne, about 40 miles away.

This street may have been a miniature replica of the main street of gold we always hear about.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#11

Post by Starhunter » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:54 pm

As a child I had a keen interest in the possible reality of heaven, because I saw that this world is obviously a damaged paradise.
I remember asking people outside of their churches as I went past, if they could tell me more about heaven, and to my surprise nobody knew, but some said it was better than I thought.

At the time it would not have been difficult to conjure up something... because I had nothing but a blue sky.
(Skies in Australia are blue).

It's been my hobby ever since, to collect any information on heaven, so if you have something on it, let us know.

I can try and verify if it has Biblical support as well.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#12

Post by Lonewolf » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:18 pm

Heaven to me is heartfelt., it is inside of one., the kingdom of God is at hand., the kingdom of God is within.

Heaven or hell is in your Life., which one do you live in, is the question asked?

When you experience the most beautiful heartfelt moment, it is, like they say, heaven on earth!

Heaven is here with you, "if" you Live in Christ., the HS lives within you, so how much more heaven do you want?

A while ago I asked, do Christians only follow Christ because of the promise of a heaven / paradise to come?

I think that a whole lot of Christians do.,

But I'm not one of them..

I Live Here Today, With GOD Today..

This is my Heaven here and now, among the believers and the ones who are to believe., I must learn to love and do everything here ~> that I am to do in heaven.,
I must live here, as if I was already in heaven.. So this is my heaven., this is where I have my loved ones, and where I have my place to be., heaven starts now!
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!

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Re: Details of Heaven

#13

Post by Starhunter » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:49 pm

Do you have any recollection of any details you might have come across on the heaven above, before you found the heaven within?

Any detail on heaven has to be in accord with the character of God, so yes, having the Holy spirit is paramount when talking about the details of heaven and interpreting the many scriptural passages on it.

Heaven is talked about directly as in Revelation, indirectly by promises given to the Jewish nation, and in illustrations and allegories, such as in Galatians 4:25-27.

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Re: Details of Heaven

#14

Post by Lonewolf » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:56 pm

Starhunter wrote:Do you have any recollection of any details you might have come across on the heaven above, before you found the heaven within?
Yeah, I do., same as everyone else in the average Catholic world, I guess.

Mainly that it comes after physical death., that it is up in the sky somewhere., that you'll be with your lost loved ones., that you won't feel the dreads and pains of this life., that you won't die after., that you'll be up there among the angels., that you'll live happily ever after, and you'll be with GOD.
Your outward profession of having put on Christ, has as yet to put off Plato from your heart!

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Re: Details of Heaven

#15

Post by Starhunter » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:48 pm

No wonder so many Catholics turn to atheism, there is no substance to it, but floating fissures of a ghost land. And you have to be dead ?! I do not want to belittle the connection with GOD as you said.

But why is so much written about heaven? because God knows that this world is not always a nice place. Colossians 3:2,Set your mind on the things above and not on the things of earth.

There is absolutely no point in the resurrection if you can ghost it. Note that if we are lucky enough to be alive when that resurrection takes place, you and I don't die, but are given immortality and taken to heaven. I Thessalonians 4:13-18.

We must have a body in heaven otherwise when we eat the food will fall straight through. Luke 24:36-43.

A restoration of man and the entire earth is in God's plans, and this place is real isn't it?
Not only that but God wants to move house to earth, to be on our planet. heaven is not ether but solid, its foundations are sapphires. Isaiah 54:11

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