Sabbath

[UsagiTsukino]

How do u guys feel about the sabbath keepers? Here is some of the proof they give for sabbath still being required



http://www.cogwriter.com/sabbath.htm

http://yrm.org/popular.htm

The Christians did met sunday

[neo-x]

We have had a lot of old threads on this, may be you should search those out. I doubt anyone has anything new to say on the matter, this has been discussed to death.

[Stu]

Here's a question. Where in the Bible does it say that God de-sanctified the 7th day?
In Genesis 2:3 it says

³And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

No where in the Bible does God say that the 7th day is no longer blessed or sanctified.

Also no where in the Bible does it say that there are now 9 rather then 10 commandments.
In John 14:21 Jesus says

²¹He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So no where in the Bible does it say that there are now 9 rather than 10 commandments and then He says that those who love Him will keep the commandments.

[neo-x]

As I said, all of this has been said already...both sides make arguments and then it turns bitter. I don't want to participate in such a thread where we argue and keep arguing. I would prefer that you guys check those out, they are quite extensive. I think you would find it more than adequate.

[Stu]

As I said, all of this has been said already...both sides make arguments and then it turns bitter. I don't want to participate in such a thread where we argue and keep arguing. I would prefer that you guys check those out, they are quite extensive. I think you would find it more than adequate.

What I didn't see addressed in those threads was this, so a couple questions for the experts:

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So God blessed and sanctified the seventh day before the fall of man.

So at that point man had not yet fallen, yet the seventh day was still blessed and sanctified.
Because man had not yet fallen there was no need for Jesus' sacrifice, yet the seventh day was still blessed and sanctified.

So why would Jesus' later arrival then negate that blessing and sanctification? Or did it?

And if the seventh day remains blessed and sanctified, does that have any real-world consequences. Can we do as we please and is it merely a holy day with no need to honour it in any way? All very confusing.

[Gman]

How do u guys feel about the sabbath keepers? Here is some of the proof they give for sabbath still being required



http://www.cogwriter.com/sabbath.htm

http://yrm.org/popular.htm

The Christians did met sunday

There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament that states that keeping the Sabbath has been done away with. It was the catholic church some 300 years later that came up with the idea that the Sabbath has been changed to sunday. Yeshua (or Jesus) never ever spoke against honoring the Sabbath.

[Stu]

There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament that states that keeping the Sabbath has been done away with. It was the catholic church some 300 years later that came up with the idea that the Sabbath has been changed to sunday. Yeshua (or Jesus) never ever spoke against honoring the Sabbath.

What do you make of Exodus 31:12-18 ?

The Sabbath

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

18 When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

Seems very much like God is referring to the Israelites?

[Gman]

There is absolutely nothing in the New Testament that states that keeping the Sabbath has been done away with. It was the catholic church some 300 years later that came up with the idea that the Sabbath has been changed to sunday. Yeshua (or Jesus) never ever spoke against honoring the Sabbath.

What do you make of Exodus 31:12-18 ?

The Sabbath

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

18 When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

Seems very much like God is referring to the Israelites?

Christians graft into the same covenants given to Israel.. Not the catholic church. Christian’s graft into the commonwealth of Israel and are co-citizens of the covenants with the Jewish people (Ephesians 2:11-13, 19, Ephesians 3:6, Romans 11:11-24). G-d made the covenants ONLY between the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 8:6-13). Again... There is no house of the gentiles or catholic church. That was an invention by man...

[Stu]

Christians graft into the same covenants given to Israel.. Not the catholic church. Christian’s graft into the commonwealth of Israel and are co-citizens of the covenants with the Jewish people (Ephesians 2:11-13, 19, Ephesians 3:6, Romans 11:11-24). G-d made the covenants ONLY between the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 8:6-13). Again... There is no house of the gentiles or catholic church. That was an invention by man...

Thanks will read up more on those scriptures.
Could you elaborate on the Catholic Church element a bit more.

[UsagiTsukino]

Actually the word Catholic didn't come into use until 107 but there is an 90Ad of Christians speaking of sunday.

[Gman]

Christians graft into the same covenants given to Israel.. Not the catholic church. Christian’s graft into the commonwealth of Israel and are co-citizens of the covenants with the Jewish people (Ephesians 2:11-13, 19, Ephesians 3:6, Romans 11:11-24). G-d made the covenants ONLY between the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 8:6-13). Again... There is no house of the gentiles or catholic church. That was an invention by man...

Thanks will read up more on those scriptures.
Could you elaborate on the Catholic Church element a bit more.

It was formally known as sun god worship (on Sunday) years before Christianity, but it was fully instituted by the Catholic church years later..

"in A.D. 325, Pope Sylvester officially named Sunday “the Lord’s Day,” and in A.D. 338, Eusebius, the court bishop of Constantine, wrote, “All things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath (the seventh day of the week) we (Constantine, Eusebius, and other bishops) have transferred to the Lord’s Day (the first day of the week) as more appropriately belonging to it.”

Constantine named himself Bishop of the Catholic Church and enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance in A.D. 321.

"On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. —Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, vol. III, chap. 75."

Source: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-resour ... hange.aspx

[UsagiTsukino]

Christians graft into the same covenants given to Israel.. Not the catholic church. Christian’s graft into the commonwealth of Israel and are co-citizens of the covenants with the Jewish people (Ephesians 2:11-13, 19, Ephesians 3:6, Romans 11:11-24). G-d made the covenants ONLY between the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 8:6-13). Again... There is no house of the gentiles or catholic church. That was an invention by man...

Thanks will read up more on those scriptures.
Could you elaborate on the Catholic Church element a bit more.

It was formally known as sun god worship (on Sunday) years before Christianity, but it was fully instituted by the Catholic church years later..

"in A.D. 325, Pope Sylvester officially named Sunday “the Lord’s Day,” and in A.D. 338, Eusebius, the court bishop of Constantine, wrote, “All things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath (the seventh day of the week) we (Constantine, Eusebius, and other bishops) have transferred to the Lord’s Day (the first day of the week) as more appropriately belonging to it.”

Constantine named himself Bishop of the Catholic Church and enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance in A.D. 321.

"On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. —Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, vol. III, chap. 75."

Source: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-resour ... hange.aspx

Excuse me but there is a references to Sunday in 90 Ad and the catholic church did not appear until 107

[UsagiTsukino]

AD 90 - The DIDACHE

1. But every Lord's day [Sunday] do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
2. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned.

3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, saith the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations." - Didache: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Chapter XIV

AD 100 - BARNABAS

"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead..."
“Moreover God says to the Jews, 'Your new moons and Sabbaths 1 cannot endure.' You see how he says, 'The present Sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath which I have made in which, when I have rested from all things, I will make the beginning of the eighth day [Sunday] which is the beginning of another world.'

Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day [Sunday] for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. -The Epistle of Barnabas, 15:8ff, AD 100, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 1, p. 147


Around AD 150, Justin Martyr wrote extensively about how Christians worshiped on Sunday, instead of on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath...
AD 150 - Justin Martyr

"The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day [Sunday]...”
“...Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first.". (Justin, Dialogue 41:4). No Sabbath keeping here.

“...those who have persecuted and do persecute Christ, if they do not repent, shall not inherit anything on the holy mountain. But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which they have committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob,

even although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor observe the feasts. Assuredly they shall receive the holy inheritance of God. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 1, page 207).



So you are office to assume that the Catholics changed the sabbath not only that but you can't drive or travel. Cook. DO you do this on sabbath while going to change? no power at all.

[UsagiTsukino]

Acts 20:7 speaks of Communion. So to say the Catholic church changed it is false. There already Christians celebrated it before 325 AD and before 107 AD. The Pope didn't exist until 606AD. So the Pope didn't change it.

Jesus broke the Sabbath and it would be a sin for him to do it but he did not sin.

[neo-x]

I broke the sabbath, breaking it since childhood actually...does that mean I am sinning?