Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#1

Post by Protestant » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:07 am

This is currently a divide in my church, and one reason I haven't gone. My pastor is contempt that if I don't agree with his view that God is the same as Jesus then I will go to Hell.

What do you guys think? Personally, I don't feel it's any of his business to decide that I will go to Hell because I don't agree with his subjective statement.

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#2

Post by RickD » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:16 am

Protestant, are you familiar with the concept of Jesus being God in the flesh?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnat ... istianity)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#3

Post by Protestant » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:14 am

Yes but maybe I did not phrase my question correctly.

He believes that Jesus and God are the EXACT SAME. In the sense that they are not different at all the exact same entity.

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#4

Post by Reactionary » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:23 am

Protestant wrote:I don't agree with his view that God is the same as Jesus then I will go to Hell.
Who still scares people with Hell...? :shakehead:
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#5

Post by Protestant » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:27 am

Reactionary wrote:
Protestant wrote:I don't agree with his view that God is the same as Jesus then I will go to Hell.
Who still scares people with Hell...? :shakehead:
He didn't say that I would "go to Hell" but he implied to me this "So.. you're going to look God in the face when you meet him and tell him differently?" it is implying my statement.

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#6

Post by RickD » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:33 am

Protestant wrote:Yes but maybe I did not phrase my question correctly.

He believes that Jesus and God are the EXACT SAME. In the sense that they are not different at all the exact same entity.
I would agree that God is one entity, or being, existent in three persons. The trinity.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#7

Post by Tina » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:22 pm

I think GOD can take different forms ( a.k.a.- Jesus Christ )
I think of how our souls have been put into bodies, I think maybe GOD just put part of Himself in a body because such a vessel cannot contain all of GOD and HIS glory...So HE only put part of Himself in it.....but that's just what I think...I'm not positive if it's true...

Here's just a link that explains where Jesus claims to be GOD in the Bible
http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html
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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#8

Post by B. W. » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:08 pm

Protestant wrote:This is currently a divide in my church, and one reason I haven't gone. My pastor is contempt that if I don't agree with his view that God is the same as Jesus then I will go to Hell.

What do you guys think? Personally, I don't feel it's any of his business to decide that I will go to Hell because I don't agree with his subjective statement.
I am not sure what your pastors point is about this...

Is he teaching the Christian Orthodox Trinity doctrine or the Oneness Pentecostalism version?

If we understood what he means it would help us help you better…

See this link for Oneness Pentecostalism
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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#9

Post by Protestant » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:48 pm

Not the Trinity version.

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#10

Post by KBCid » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:01 pm

no one can be their own son
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
//www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/chri ... each-other

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#11

Post by RickD » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:06 pm

Protestant wrote:Not the Trinity version.
Protestant, if your pastor doesn't believe in the trinity, his belief is outside of mainstream Christianity, and you need to use extreme caution. Do you happen to have a website for this pastor's church that I can take a look at? If you don't want to post it here, you can pm me a link to the website, and I'll keep it private. I can usually tell a lot from the "what we believe" section of a church's website.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#12

Post by Tina » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:07 pm

KBCid wrote:no one can be their own son
But isn't a son just a part of the father? A mother and father form a baby. It is half the father and half the mother. So, the son is just a part of the father. I'm sure if GOD wanted to make a part of HIMSELF into a son, then HE can. HE's GOD.
"Love others as I have loved you." -Jesus Christ

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#13

Post by RickD » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:08 pm

KBCid wrote:no one can be their own son
"no one" is singular, and can't be a " their", because their is plural. :wave:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#14

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:17 am

Jesus and God share the same nature.
They are NOT the same "person".
They are the same in terms of what they are not WHO they are.
Regardless of one feelings about the Trinity, no where will you find in the bible the statement that Son and Father are the same person.
The strongest statements in regards to how "same" Son and Father are, are in:
Colossians 1:15-20
15 [a]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [c] is before all things, and in Him all things [d]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For [e]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [f]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [g]heaven.

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Have this attitude [a]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but [c] emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [d]on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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Re: Is God and Jesus the same or are they different

#15

Post by Jac3510 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:41 am

It sounds like your pastor is a modalist (technically called a Monoarchian), which means it sounds like he believes that God is one Person who takes on three different forms (sometimes as the Father, sometimes as the Son, sometimes as the Spirit). That's long been regarded as a heresy. Here's a good link where you can read more about that particular view:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm

Beyond that, what's been said above is correct, I think. The Father and the Son are of the same substance but they are different Persons. More technically, the Father is the Principle, and the Son and Holy Spirit are internal processions within that Principle. As such, they are identical with that Principle in substance and distinguished only in their relation to Him. That is the classical doctrine of the Trinity: the Father, Son, and Spirit are co-equal, co-substantial, and co-eternal; there is nothing to distinguish the Three of them save their relations (Paternity, Filiation, and Spiration). That even extends to their mind and will (that is, the Father does not have one mind and will, the Son another, and the Spirit yet another, all of which are in essential agreement with one another; rather, they all have the same Mind and Will).

So, no, Jesus is not identical with the Father. The distinction, however, is not in their substance (both are God--here we are talking about Jesus' divine nature, not His human nature--for more on that, read up on the hypostatic union), but rather in their relations to one another. Jesus is the Son of God, while as the Son, He is God. Or, as John put it, "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word Was God."
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And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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