Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#211

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:11 pm

RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Beanybag wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I think being "ok" with it is kind of the wrong word.
Christians accept that man is sinful and will have the desire to sin and that sin/desire can manifest itself in many ways.
The act of rape, of theft, of killing, of illict sex, etc, these acts are wrong and condemned as sin, as are the temptation to do them.
A person that has these inclinations but does not act on them is still sinning, but it is less a sin than going through with the act.
A degree of sin if you will, BUT the sin is still there.
Wasn't Christ tempted?

The devil tried to tempt Christ but at no point was Christ tempted.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

So he was tempted, but was not tempted. :mrgreen:
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#212

Post by RickD » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:13 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Beanybag wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I think being "ok" with it is kind of the wrong word.
Christians accept that man is sinful and will have the desire to sin and that sin/desire can manifest itself in many ways.
The act of rape, of theft, of killing, of illict sex, etc, these acts are wrong and condemned as sin, as are the temptation to do them.
A person that has these inclinations but does not act on them is still sinning, but it is less a sin than going through with the act.
A degree of sin if you will, BUT the sin is still there.
Wasn't Christ tempted?

The devil tried to tempt Christ but at no point was Christ tempted.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

So he was tempted, but was not tempted. :mrgreen:
Alrighty then. y:O2
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#213

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:18 pm

The devil tried to tempt Christ but at no point was Christ tempted.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.


So he was tempted, but was not tempted. :mrgreen:
Alrighty then. y:O2
There is a big difference between being tempted by someone and giving in to that temptation.

In effect he was never actually tempted as hard as Satan tried.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#214

Post by RickD » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:24 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
The devil tried to tempt Christ but at no point was Christ tempted.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.


So he was tempted, but was not tempted. :mrgreen:
Alrighty then. y:O2
There is a big difference between being tempted by someone and giving in to that temptation.

In effect he was never actually tempted as hard as Satan tried.
Aren't we tempted by our human nature sometimes? Tempted from within ourselves, so to speak. Your saying Christ was only tempted from others, not from within himself, or from his human nature?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#215

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:42 pm

Aren't we tempted by our human nature sometimes? Tempted from within ourselves, so to speak. Your saying Christ was only tempted from others, not from within himself, or from his human nature?
We are tempted by our human nature yes, but there is still a distinction between giving in to temptation and being tempted.

Really this is just a play on words, Christ was tempted (tested) by Satan and I am sure he had temptations from within from his humanity but Christ was never tempted to carry out the temptation thus he remained without sin.

Maybe my understanding of temptation is different to everyone else's?
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#216

Post by RickD » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:38 pm

We are tempted by our human nature yes, but there is still a distinction between giving in to temptation and being tempted.
I agree.
Really this is just a play on words, Christ was tempted (tested) by Satan and I am sure he had temptations from within from his humanity but Christ was never tempted to carry out the temptation thus he remained without sin.
I think Christ was tempted in all things we are. Otherwise, he couldn't sympathize with us. IMO, it's part of what makes his incarnation so amazing. He can completely understand what we go through every day, because he faced temptation just like we do.
Maybe my understanding of temptation is different to everyone else's?
I wouldn't say everyone else. There's probably a few people out there that believe like you do. :mrgreen:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#217

Post by mlynchrules » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:00 pm

Apologies for raising this from the dead again. I've been super busy with school and was just thinking about all of you and felt like seeing what has been going on.
but, you respond with, "Yeah, but I think"'s. That's not what a servant of Christ would say, but rather, "What does G-d think?"
You'll always find love and acceptance from sincere Christians, but, you need to make sure that your priorities are straight, and that you really want what G-d wants for your WHOLE life, not just your Sundays and being "nice" to people during the week, or else you may find that you have no relationship with the Christ Who's Name you say you bear.
I'm praying for you, as I'm sure other are here as well. You should pray as well, and keep reading your Bible and asking G-d to show you what it truly says.
I will of course respond with "yeah but I think" because who ACTUALLY knows what God thinks? Like I have stated before, the Bible is an incredibly old book that has been translated so many times before it could come to be what you and I know to be the most recent English translation, and even then there are so many different versions of the Bible. Some versions even contain stories exclusive to that Bible. A lot of the Bible is unclear and ambiguous (sorry, I couldn't find the right word that I wanted to use so that will just have to do for now) so it is up to the reader to "translate" the language again into something that makes sense. Also there are parts of the Bible that are no longer relevant to today's society so some of the text needs to be reinterpreted.

You are totally right. I do need to have my priorities straight and that God is present in every part of my life, not just the parts where He is CONVENIENT. I feel like sometimes a lot of Christians fall into a place where they follow scripture where it is convenient for them. For example, in the Bible it says somewhere that you are not supposed to get piercings or tattoos (or maybe it was both, I can't remember. I think that it says that you are not supposed to alter your body). I know MANY people who consider themselves to be devoted Christians who have both piercings and tattoos. Obviously now that I have brought up "convenience", all of you are going to be all over me saying "isn't that slightly hypocritical?". I don't believe so. I think that tattoos and piercings are perfectly fine for Christians to get, just like I think that Christians can also be homosexual.

Well, that is all that I have time for today. I'll try to come back on here before a full week is over to continue conversation. I hope that you are all doing well! :)

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#218

Post by bippy123 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:30 pm

A lot of the Bible is unclear and ambiguous (sorry, I couldn't find the right word that I wanted to use so that will just have to do for now) so it is up to the reader to "translate" the language again into something that makes sense. Also there are parts of the Bible that are no longer relevant to today's society so some of the text needs to be reinterpreted.
Does the bible say that we are supposed to interprete the bible by ourselves?
Thats a new one to me :)

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#219

Post by Beanybag » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:58 am

bippy123 wrote:
A lot of the Bible is unclear and ambiguous (sorry, I couldn't find the right word that I wanted to use so that will just have to do for now) so it is up to the reader to "translate" the language again into something that makes sense. Also there are parts of the Bible that are no longer relevant to today's society so some of the text needs to be reinterpreted.
Does the bible say that we are supposed to interprete the bible by ourselves?
Can we come to that interpretation through outside help or must we come to it by ourselves?

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#220

Post by Byblos » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:22 am

Beanybag wrote:
bippy123 wrote:
A lot of the Bible is unclear and ambiguous (sorry, I couldn't find the right word that I wanted to use so that will just have to do for now) so it is up to the reader to "translate" the language again into something that makes sense. Also there are parts of the Bible that are no longer relevant to today's society so some of the text needs to be reinterpreted.
Does the bible say that we are supposed to interprete the bible by ourselves?
Can we come to that interpretation through outside help or must we come to it by ourselves?
Beanny know who you're talking to man. Like me, Bippy is Catholic. We're trained from birth to follow like sheep. :esurprised: :mrgreen:
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#221

Post by Katabole » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:00 am

Beanybag wrote:Can we come to that interpretation through outside help or must we come to it by ourselves?
Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Acts 8:30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

Acts 8:31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Part of the reason the God of the Bible created the Levitical priesthood in the first place was in order to teach the masses; that people were not supposed to learn solely by themselves which would eventually lead to individualistic interpretation and cults and granted that has happened in some cases. A priest class was initiated and instituted. The churches in general and especially the Catholics have actually done this by creating either a board of directors with mission statements containing core beliefs or as in Catholicism, a hierarchy which includes, ministers, priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals and finally the pope; each one responsible for the group lower than it in rank. There is also the church itself as a unified group of believers worldwide, which contain elders of the faith, who have the right to correct others within the faith so that the Christian message presented publicly, is one in both mind and judgment.

If all of us went to a math class and were told there was no instructor, some of us could probably learn without a teacher but the majority would not be able to grasp concepts without a teacher. Modern education systems are patterned after old, with instructors teaching students. It's the same within Theology, covered very well in 1Corinthians ch 12. Some have been given the gift to teach. Others are just learners.

John 13:13 You call me Teacher and Lord: and you say well; for so I am.

We learn from our teacher, Christ.
Well it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you know you gotta serve somebody. Bob Dylan

Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#222

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Katabole wrote:
Beanybag wrote:Can we come to that interpretation through outside help or must we come to it by ourselves?
Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Acts 8:30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

Acts 8:31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Part of the reason the God of the Bible created the Levitical priesthood in the first place was in order to teach the masses; that people were not supposed to learn solely by themselves which would eventually lead to individualistic interpretation and cults and granted that has happened in some cases. A priest class was initiated and instituted. The churches in general and especially the Catholics have actually done this by creating either a board of directors with mission statements containing core beliefs or as in Catholicism, a hierarchy which includes, ministers, priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals and finally the pope; each one responsible for the group lower than it in rank. There is also the church itself as a unified group of believers worldwide, which contain elders of the faith, who have the right to correct others within the faith so that the Christian message presented publicly, is one in both mind and judgment.

If all of us went to a math class and were told there was no instructor, some of us could probably learn without a teacher but the majority would not be able to grasp concepts without a teacher. Modern education systems are patterned after old, with instructors teaching students. It's the same within Theology, covered very well in 1Corinthians ch 12. Some have been given the gift to teach. Others are just learners.

John 13:13 You call me Teacher and Lord: and you say well; for so I am.

We learn from our teacher, Christ.
That was before the HS was given freely to all believers.

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#223

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:10 pm

Beanybag wrote:
bippy123 wrote:
A lot of the Bible is unclear and ambiguous (sorry, I couldn't find the right word that I wanted to use so that will just have to do for now) so it is up to the reader to "translate" the language again into something that makes sense. Also there are parts of the Bible that are no longer relevant to today's society so some of the text needs to be reinterpreted.
Does the bible say that we are supposed to interprete the bible by ourselves?
Can we come to that interpretation through outside help or must we come to it by ourselves?
It's not a case of either/or.
The HS is our ultimate guide BUT there is no reason NOT to study and listen to others and then make the call.
In something so precious as our salvation or the salvation of others, would you leave that in the hands of someone else or take up the responsibility for yourself?

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#224

Post by snorider » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:39 pm

We once were segregated by race, and before that, slavery. Leviticus 25:44-46
We have corrected ourselves of racial segregation, we also corrected slavery.
Using God's "divine command morality" to justify the hate towards homosexuals, or judging the way they live is morally reprehensible.

Jordan

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Re: Who are we to judge homosexuality/others?

#225

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:32 pm

snorider wrote:We once were segregated by race, and before that, slavery. Leviticus 25:44-46
We have corrected ourselves of racial segregation, we also corrected slavery.
Using God's "divine command morality" to justify the hate towards homosexuals, or judging the way they live is morally reprehensible.

Jordan

The Levitical laws no longer apply, God gave us these commands Matthew 22:36-40 36

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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