Blasphemy?

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Dallas
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Blasphemy?

#1

Post by Dallas » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:40 am

Two posts in one day YES.
Anyways, Blasphemy from what I grew up to learn was an "unforgivable sin." Yet, when I growing up I was taught that Suicide and Homosexuality will cause you to go to Hell automatically. But when I switched buildings They believed in Eternal Salvation. That contradicted what I learned growing up and had a hard time accepting somethings and what not. So... does that mean If you're a homosexual and they Believe in faith Jesus died and rose again, that you'll still go to heaven? Or is this a topic that is more of an opinion on how you interpet the Bible? HELP

Thank you,
Dallas
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Re: Blasphemy?

#2

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:09 pm

No sin is greater than another James 2:10 and Matthew 12:31 all sins will be forgiven except blasphemy against the holy spirit ( which means to reject God ).
I beleive that they will go to heaven even though their life style is not ideal.
Really it is not up for us to make that judgement, only God knows their heart.

Daniel
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Blasphemy?

#3

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:44 pm

There are some who believe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in effect means resisting His drawing toward Jesus Christ as Savior.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Re: Blasphemy?

#4

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:57 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:There are some who believe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in effect means resisting His drawing toward Jesus Christ as Savior.

Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't resisting God's call to Jesus mean to reject God, as rejecting the son is to reject the Father also?
Please elaborate if i am missunderstanding.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Blasphemy?

#5

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:32 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:There are some who believe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in effect means resisting His drawing toward Jesus Christ as Savior.

Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't resisting God's call to Jesus mean to reject God, as rejecting the son is to reject the Father also?
Please elaborate if i am missunderstanding.
The Holy Spirit is God as well. That's why some make that association. The point is that the verse that speaks of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as being the unforgivable sin is more than just someone saying some words. It's a lifelong cultivated attitude of resistance toward the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirt is the one who points us toward and calls us to Jesus Christ. Therefore resisting and disrespecting Him is to resist His role pointing us toward Christ who reconciles us to the Father.

It's an interesting approach. I think it's more complicated than the text itself attempts to say, but it does tie into several other themes in Scripture.

The context of the passage just before this one in the gospels makes clear what Jesus was speaking about. Pharisees were accusing Jesus of casting out demons because he was allied with Beelzebub, the prince of Demons. They were in effect taking the work of God, The Holy Spirit and calling it and Him Demonic. In that sense it shows we're talking about far more than just a few misplaces words. Further is speaks of those who have truly committed it as being unable to repent. I've always told people who worry about if they've committed the unpardonable sin, that if they're concerned about it, then that means they haven't.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Re: Blasphemy?

#6

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:44 pm

Thanks for the clarification Canukster. :amen:
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Blasphemy?

#7

Post by Murray » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:36 pm

I'm kind of against the whole Gays go to hell thing.

It's definitely a sin in new covenant law ( 1 Corinthians 6:9 ), and IMO a choice which is not glorifying god and you should make an effort to change your ways when you become christian ( 1 Peter 1:14 ) , But still I cannot comprehend a sin overcoming Christ's sacrifice. ( Mark 3:28 )

I think a Gay christian does still go to heaven, or maybe a lower form of it if such things exist
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Re: Blasphemy?

#8

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:02 pm

I think all sorts of sinners can go to heaven ... including me (by God's grace.)
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Murray
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Re: Blasphemy?

#9

Post by Murray » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:15 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:I think all sorts of sinners can go to heaven ... including me (by God's grace.)
But we must be careful to avoid the mindset of " we all sin, so sin's do not matter". I constantly hear that sort of argument in cases in support of gays. When a gay chooses that lifestyle and accepts it he is no longer struggling with sin, but rather embracing it and living in it. This is something that absolutely goes against the teachings of Jesus.

We are supposed to (or at least attempt to) change our ways as true Christians, not stay in our old ways and embrace them ( again going back to 1 Peter 1:14 )
in nomine patri et fili spiritu sancte

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Re: Blasphemy?

#10

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:22 pm

Murray wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:I think all sorts of sinners can go to heaven ... including me (by God's grace.)
But we must be careful to avoid the mindset of " we all sin, so sin's do not matter". I constantly hear that sort of argument in cases in support of gays. When a gay chooses that lifestyle and accepts it he is no longer struggling with sin, but rather embracing it and living in it. This is something that absolutely goes against the teachings of Jesus.

We are supposed to (or at least attempt to) change our ways as true Christians, not stay in our old ways and embrace them ( again going back to 1 Peter 1:14 )
:amen:
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Blasphemy?

#11

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:27 pm

There's a lot going on including what you define as sin and what you don't. In one sense of "being gay" in terms of orientation isn't any more a sin than being heterosexual. The issue of sin is how you act upon it and in what context. There are for a fact people who identify themselves as gay who are celibate and live a life far more in synch with the standards of God than many heterosexuals who are sexually active and involved in fornication and adultery.

Sin is sin. The remedy for all of it is Christ and His grace. It's like being a "little bit pregnant" ... you either are or you aren't saved by grace. Outside of that there are temporal consequences for sins and there may be Kingdom implications outside of salvation as well. We usually get into conflict when we confuse those things and then adopt a performance mindset that sets us on the slippery slope back to Old Testament religion instead of accepting what Jesus came to show us and establish.

Evangelicals and fundamentalists seem to have the most trouble with this and somehow assign different levels or scores to sins and worry about which is worse or which is better. Of course, the sins mostly present in evangelical circles are somehow much more acceptable or less serious sins ....

It really gets to be tiresome after a while and can descend in short order into abject hypocrisy.

Jesus seems to address many similar issues in the context of his day with their view of sin and the religious people of Jesus' day weren't as high on Jesus' list in terms of their attitudes and behavior as they were in their own eyes. That's not a bad things to remember when we begin to grade other people's sins on the bell curve and come away feeling we're somehow better people. Jesus came to save sinners and told us it was the sick who needed a physician. It may be that many of those that we as Christians look down upon are just as valuable to God as we are (radical thought) and while that doesn't mean we should make light of sin, maybe we should focus more on our own, than other's. Jesus said that too I believe, only he used the metaphor of splinters and logs in our eyes.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Re: Blasphemy?

#12

Post by Murray » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:46 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote: Jesus said that too I believe, only he used the metaphor of splinters and logs in our eyes.
I believe we are also told to help others with their current sin? ( James 5:20 , Galatians 6:1 , Matthew 7:5, Luke 5:31 )

You are correct about gays, many gay Christians do live a life more fulfilling and righteous than heterosexuals, 1 Corinthians 6:9 does also include out of marriage heterosexual sex which is a common occurrence in the christian community (go to any club and you will see many "christians" wearing huggge crosses as bling while treating women as objects to be used, also you can watch jersey shore). Even Leviticus 18:22 defines homosexuality as a old testament law sin only in the actual homosexual act.

I never said these Christians are more righteous than gays, but my point is that both gays and heterosexuals should improve themselves and change their lifestyles when they become true Christians. Do not kid yourself, homosexual sexual acts are sins, they can never be justified because they will always be out of true marriage, AND they are strictly defined as sinful in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Galatians 5:19-21 .

As I said before, I believe gays will inherit the kingdom of heaven, no sin can outweigh Christ's sacrifice but that does not mean they should not strive to change their ways.
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Re: Blasphemy?

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Post by Gman » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:14 pm

God is the ultimate judge who is going to heaven or not.. So who is going or not going to heaven is up to Him. I for one would do my best not to practice ANY sin to the best to my knowledge. Therefore I wouldn't practice, homosexuality, masturbation, per-matrital sex, pornography and the likes.. Oh sure you can practice those things and take a chance, but if you TRULY love Him and heaven you wouldn't..
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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