Lust

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
Post Reply
Noah1201
Recognized Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:21 pm
Christian: No
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Lust

#1

Post by Noah1201 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:05 pm

Some theologians have argued that lustful thoughts, if put in the context of a marriage covenant, may not be sinful. What's your take on that?

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Lust

#2

Post by Gman » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:27 pm

Noah1201 wrote:Some theologians have argued that lustful thoughts, if put in the context of a marriage covenant, may not be sinful. What's your take on that?
I don't know what there is to debate here... We are to live by the spirit.. It's all in Galatians 5: 13-26.

Life by the Spirit

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

Noah1201
Recognized Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:21 pm
Christian: No
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#3

Post by Noah1201 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:26 pm

Don't get me wrong--I'm not looking for excuses to lust. I can suppress my lustful tendencies very easily.

But I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as you think. None of the passages you posted even mention lust.

A Y323
Recognized Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:06 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#4

Post by A Y323 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:49 pm

Why would lust not be included as part of sexual immorality? or even 'desires of the flesh'? Does lust promote love, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, or self-control?

Noah1201
Recognized Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:21 pm
Christian: No
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#5

Post by Noah1201 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:11 am

A Y323 wrote:Why would lust not be included as part of sexual immorality? or even 'desires of the flesh'? Does lust promote love, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, or self-control?
One could ask precisely the same questions with respect to encouraging one's sexual desires in the context of a marriage. Isn't that, too, a "desire of the flesh"? Does it promote patience, goodness or self-control?

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Lust

#6

Post by Gman » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:42 am

Noah1201 wrote: One could ask precisely the same questions with respect to encouraging one's sexual desires in the context of a marriage. Isn't that, too, a "desire of the flesh"? Does it promote patience, goodness or self-control?
Many places..

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

Best explained here... http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/p ... tians.html
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

User avatar
Seraph
Senior Member
Posts: 670
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:47 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Los Angeles
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Lust

#7

Post by Seraph » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:49 pm

I would think it would be much easier to justify lust outside the confines of marriage rather than in it(not that I do). When you're single, you aren't being directly unfaithful to anyone by lusting. I'm not sure why it would become okay once you're married to someone.

Edit: I read the Noah's post again and it occured to me that he might be referring to lust directed towards your spouse. In this case, I would think lust would be extremely rare since lust is usually the intense desire for someone that you can't or shouldn't have. I would think "lust" directed at the spouse would just be sexual attraction.

A side random question relating to lust: For single people, where do you draw the line between sexual attraction and lustful thoughts? If you were to dismiss all sexual attraction as lust or "desires of the flesh", nobody would ever end up together. I'm not sure that one can say that romantic love is what should bring couples together since that doesn't manifest itself until later in the relationship (so I'm told).
I am committed to belief in God, as the most morally demanding, psychologically enriching, intellectually satisfying and imaginatively fruitful hypothesis about the ultimate nature of reality known to me - Keith Ward

User avatar
Canuckster1127
Old School
Posts: 5306
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Tulsa, OK
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Lust

#8

Post by Canuckster1127 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:30 pm

Lust is lust is lust. In the context of marriage, sexual attraction is not lust. Lust within a marriage is treating your partner as an object rather than a person with whom you have a relationship. It's less an issue of trying to legalistically setting up "rules" as to what constitutes lust. It's a heart attitude more than anything else in my opinion and experience.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

//bartsbarometer.com/

mandelduke
Recognized Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:35 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Choctaw. MS.
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#9

Post by mandelduke » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:36 am

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:28

CeT-To
Senior Member
Posts: 735
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:57 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#10

Post by CeT-To » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:32 pm

I think Canackster has got it, nice answer!
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

Dan Rey
Newbie Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:14 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#11

Post by Dan Rey » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:48 pm

Yep, Canuckster has got it.

But this makes me wonder.

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:28

What if they are just imagining there girlfriend & himself in the future, with kids? Cause I've read that in a book. Does it count if they see them married (without lust)?

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9203
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 347 times

Re: Lust

#12

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:10 am

Lust is a very natural feeling, we all have it.
We lust after someone we find attractive, we lust after a new car, a new job, a promotion perhaps.
To deny we have these feelings is to feed them, we must understand them, where they come from and why we feel that way.
Its not about suppression really, but about understanding what drives lust and in knowing that, how to deal with it.
In our fallen state, we are subject to the illusion that we can control and dominate these natural urges, but as Paul reminds us, even he had problem with that - He knew what was right but still found himself doing what was wrong.
Why do we do that? Because we are under the incorrect impression that we CAN do something about it ourselves and we can't, we need Christ to guide and strengthen Us, we need the Holy Spirit in us because " for man it is not possible, but for God all is possible".

User avatar
neo-x
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3560
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:13 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Has liked: 228 times
Been liked: 106 times
Contact:

Re: Lust

#13

Post by neo-x » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:27 am

by Noah1201 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:05 am

Some theologians have argued that lustful thoughts, if put in the context of a marriage covenant, may not be sinful. What's your take on that?
I think the modern term lust implies a vast meaning rather than just a fantasy obsession. In marriage lust becomes strong attraction because the very term "lust" points that it is something that one doesn't have or cannot have and thus covets for it. but if you imagine having kids and family with the girl you love, nah i don't think it falls in the lust category, why it is wrong for having thoughts about loving someone you want to marry.

I think what Jesus meant by this:
by mandelduke » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:36 pm

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
was that we should not make someone an object for our own self interest. to me it has to do with the act of sex as sex itself is unholy without love. But why would I be blamed if i think about someone i love and want to marry, that to me just doesn't make any sense at all as my intentions are not only good for me but for the other person as well who loves me too.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

Dan Rey
Newbie Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:14 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Lust

#14

Post by Dan Rey » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:03 pm

Maybe it does not count for marriage, in a pure sense.
It's basically if whether yor are Having sex TO the partner, or WITH the partner.

Post Reply