jenwat3 wrote:Ok, B.W. Stop and think for a minute. Read this quote carefully. John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have ever-lasting life". Is this truly a statement about hell everlasting? Just think about it. This verse plainly states "should not perish but have ever-lasting life". Clearly this is not talking about an everlasting hell, because if it were, then the person in hell would still have "everlasting life"! But it plainly says they SHOULD NOT PERISH. Further, on the subject of whether the soul can die, read Matthew 10:28. "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to KILL the soul, but rather fear Him which IS ABLE to destroy both soul and body in hell." According to this verse, souls can be destroyed. Also, notice Psalm 146:4. "His spirit departs, he returns to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish". Also, Ecc. 9:5. "for the living know they shall die, but the dead know NOTHING". Clearly there is no hell where the dead are tormented forever. To further examine what hell REALLY is, read Revelation 20:10. "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.." This is not an "everlasting hell" as many are led to believe.This is a localized lake of fire that long precedes the ULTIMATE lake of fire to engulf the whole earth 1,100 years LATER, before the new heavens and new earth arrive. (Rev. 20:14, 15, 21:8, 21:1)
Hi jenwat3 - please stop for a moment,
I gave two very different examples of two very basic doctrines and the rest is up to the reader to learn from as an example of what 1 Corinthians 2 teaches.
First example, saved by God's Grace or our human works? I did not elaborate on this at all so please do not confuse it with the next statement. From 'works verses grace' you can go on and explore the riches of
John 3:14-21 on your own.
Also next, your points about hell and destroying do not line up with what God says but rather what the world says and interprets destroy…destruction.
You also forgot to mention the context of next verse from
Ecc 9:6 which explains what
Ecc 9:5 really means: Ecc 9:5 says, “
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten," and next verse explains clearly what this above quoted verse really means by them knowing nothing:
Ecc 9:6, “
Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun: Which explains what is forgotten and why no memory on earth will remain of such persons mentioned as they have no more share in anything done under the sun — in other words they do not come back to this planet — this mortal life under the sun they'll no nothing about any more.
I do not want to sound rude but go to a graveyard and read these verses out loud and you may get a better understanding of what these verses mean and note which graves have the most flowers compared with those that do not…
You also forgot
Ecc 3:11, “
He [God] has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.”
Then in
Ecc 3:14 it states: “
I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.”
What image and likeness was humanity made? Wow — whatever God does endures forever lines up with verse 14 thus defining verse 14 as, God putting eternity into man's heart. You cannot escape this nor twist it to mean something else. God placed eternity in men and women because what he does endures or last forever as we are in whose image and likeness made?
Note what
Ecc 3:17-19 says, “
I said in my heart [Note where God places eternity which endures forever], God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time for every matter and for every work. 18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts." None Righteous - no not one: remember who said that?
God test to see who are his children and who are beast — does not these very scriptures say this? Note the writer mentions the righteous and the wicked and both shall die. Now look at verse 19: “For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity.”
If all is vanity —then what of Christ Statement in
John 3:15-16? Does
John 3:15-16 line up with this next passage? How does one become righteous?
Ecc 3:20, “
All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return”
This simply means the body is laid to rest after death and is buried in the ground returning to dust [very plain meaning] so now the next question made - makes more sense in light of context of verses 11 and 14:
Ecc 3:21-22, “
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? 22, “So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?”
Only God knows who will go upward to him and who, like the beast [the wicked] will go down to the earth [Sheol].
I like the last sentence of
Ecc 3: “
Who can bring him to see what will be after him?”
John 3:14-15 answers this, “
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life." Which reveal who can bring him [you and I] to see what will be after him [Jesus]. Jesus said I go prepare a place for you in John 14.
As for
Psalms 146:4, “
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.” Again please do not take scriptures out of context by proof texting meaning to it
Here is the context:
Psalms 146:3, “
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.” In other words — why should I trust the people of the world — there is no salvation in them. Whose breath departs? Vv 4, “When his [princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation] breath departs, he [princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation] returns to the earth…
In Ecc 3 who returns to the earth? The beast — the wicked to sheol, the grave the pit. It is sad so many simply do not understand biblical symbolism
Now back to Ezekiel 32: and the verse I quoted prior — Pharaoh saw , The mighty ones were speaking in Hell, Sheol, the pit. Yes, their dead physical bodies rot and return to the dust yet their hearts — spirit - lives on fully conscious as it is written:
Ecc 3:11, 14, “
He [God] has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.”…14 “I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.”
Again:
Ecc 3:17-19 says, “
I said in my heart [Note where God places eternity which endures forever], God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time for every matter and for every work. 18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.”
Ecc 3:21-22, “
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? 22, “So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?”
Which direction do you want to head?
You cannot escape the eternal truth the God reveals and speaks in Ezekiel 32 — Hell is real and for now is known by several names such as Sheol, the pit, etc, which are all apt descriptions. You also forgot what is to be tossed into the lake of fire:
Revelation 20:13 - Hades gave up the dead who were in it. Gee whiz - you still don't get it do you?
The ways of the world does what ever it can to deny Hell and recompense — twist scriptures and deny what Jesus teaches on this subject too. You are giving example of this very thing I wrote earlier about! Now, Blasting someone off into nonexistence may seem the right course for you and the world to wish for as it negates responsibility.
Who would honestly give a hot-digity-dog if they get blasted off into nonexistence? — you wouldn't feel it or care so live like the devil have fun eat and drink up for tomorrow we die! Eternal recompense is real no matter how distasteful it is to the world's ways.
Gal 6:7-8, “
Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.”
Hell is real and it is there for a purpose which would sound foreign to you — why? Hell demonstrates God's Love. This you cannot grasp.
Ecc 3:21-22, “
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? 22, “So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?”
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Do I win?
