going to hell?

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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Re: going to hell?

#226

Post by CeT-To » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:03 am

guys whatever happened to sheol and hades? the way i know it is the lake of fire or "hell" doesnt exist yet this is because the lake of fire is only to be there on the Day of the Lord for the eternal punishment. Now remember how Jesus before he died on the cross said to the criminal next to Him that he will go to paradise? yes well thats in sheol because there are 2 parts in sheol/hades which is paradise and the other place which is for those who were not righteous enough to be there ( this i think is confirmed in the tale that jesus tells us about lazurus and the rich man) another name for paradise which is in sheol is abraham's bosom. Remember that when Jesus told the criminal next to Him that TODAY you will be in paradise with me, Jesus had to go to sheol/hades for 2 days to proclaim the good news to those in paradise and deliver them to heaven because on the 3rd day he ressurected into the glorified body back on earth. That is why the dead ( people in sheol waiting for hell) will be ressurected as it says in the scriptures " Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and everyone was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. The burning lake was the second death." (Rev. 20:13-14). So right now sheol is just used as a sort of waiting room for the burning lake because there is no paradise in it anymore, the people who believe in Jesus go straight to heaven.

With all due respect please tell me if im wrong somewhere and correct me if i am. future thank youuu!!! :ebiggrin:

God bless you all :amen:
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#227

Post by B. W. » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:20 am

CeT-To wrote:guys whatever happened to sheol and hades? the way i know it is the lake of fire or "hell" doesnt exist yet this is because the lake of fire is only to be there on the Day of the Lord for the eternal punishment. Now remember how Jesus before he died on the cross said to the criminal next to Him that he will go to paradise? yes well thats in sheol because there are 2 parts in sheol/hades which is paradise and the other place which is for those who were not righteous enough to be there ( this i think is confirmed in the tale that jesus tells us about lazurus and the rich man) another name for paradise which is in sheol is abraham's bosom. Remember that when Jesus told the criminal next to Him that TODAY you will be in paradise with me, Jesus had to go to sheol/hades for 2 days to proclaim the good news to those in paradise and deliver them to heaven because on the 3rd day he ressurected into the glorified body back on earth. That is why the dead ( people in sheol waiting for hell) will be ressurected as it says in the scriptures " Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and everyone was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. The burning lake was the second death." (Rev. 20:13-14). So right now sheol is just used as a sort of waiting room for the burning lake because there is no paradise in it anymore, the people who believe in Jesus go straight to heaven.

With all due respect please tell me if im wrong somewhere and correct me if i am. future thank youuu!!! :ebiggrin:

God bless you all :amen:
That sounds about right because the bible points these things out as you so stated.

Regarding the future Lake of Fire - how do you view that?
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Re: going to hell?

#228

Post by CeT-To » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:14 am

ummm do you mean what do i think it will be like? or what do i think about the lake of fire?

well for the first one haha i have no idea to be honest because its probably beyond my imagination on how horrible it will be :S and well for the last one i just know the lake of fire will be flipped out when everything comes to an end, although i am a bit confused on one part which is ; will the lake of fire be brought out after the 1000 year reign of the Lord? because im pretty sure that after the 1000 years are over satan will be let loose for a little while and then non believers will be ressurected (from sheol/hades) and be judged ( im not sure how the they are going to be judged if anyone could make that clear for me) and the lake of fire will be finally brought out for the first time and be used for eternal punishment(i think).

haha i seem a bit shaky on what i know but i guess that why im here on this site. Could you please help me on the parts that faulty or untrue? i would gladly appreciated :)
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#229

Post by B. W. » Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:16 am

CeT-To wrote:ummm do you mean what do i think it will be like? or what do i think about the lake of fire?

well for the first one haha i have no idea to be honest because its probably beyond my imagination on how horrible it will be :S and well for the last one i just know the lake of fire will be flipped out when everything comes to an end, although i am a bit confused on one part which is ; will the lake of fire be brought out after the 1000 year reign of the Lord? because im pretty sure that after the 1000 years are over satan will be let loose for a little while and then non believers will be ressurected (from sheol/hades) and be judged ( im not sure how the they are going to be judged if anyone could make that clear for me) and the lake of fire will be finally brought out for the first time and be used for eternal punishment(i think).

haha i seem a bit shaky on what i know but i guess that why im here on this site. Could you please help me on the parts that faulty or untrue? i would gladly appreciated :)
You are on track as the bible is pretty plain regarding these matters - even the timeline is well described. I think this quote from Scofield's may help understand what the Lake of Fire is and when it all comes about even better ...
Scofield's Commentary on Rev 21:8

second death

Second death, Summary:

"The second death" and the "lake of fire" are identical terms (Rev 20:14) and are used of the eternal state of the wicked. It is "second" relative to the preceding physical death of the wicked in unbelief and rejection of God; their eternal state is one of eternal "death" (that is, separation from God) in sins (John 8:21); (John 8:24). That the second death is not annihilation is shown by a comparison of (Rev 19:20); (Rev 20:10).

After one thousand years in the lake of fire, the Beast and False Prophet are still there, undestroyed. The words "forever and forever" ("to the ages of the ages") are used in (Heb 1:8) for the duration of the throne of God, eternal in the sense of unending.
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Re: going to hell?

#230

Post by CeT-To » Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:33 pm

oh thanx its good that im on the right track, ive been meaning to understand the resurrection of the unrightous at the end times. Ahh i finally understand on what they are going to be judged mmhmm. So i have another question im a tad skeptical on these Near Death Experiences about hell and everything :? since ive read some of them where they are very contradictory, i think i remember reading one where this woman went to heaven and there was this angel and it laughed when she asked it about sin and said that it was nothing, the angel was saying that satan wasnt even around anymore. LOL which actually sounds like satan to me :econfused: , i mean maybe lucifer can actually trick you through near death experiences which is actually an extremely powerful method of deceiving because we all know lucifer isnt some red guy with pitch forks, horns and a devil tail :twisted: , he is the most beautiful angel ( looks wise haha) and thats a great asset of his to decieve :| .
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#231

Post by CeT-To » Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:35 pm

So do you have any idea on how these NDEs are true? (sorry for double post i left out the actual question :lol: )
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#232

Post by B. W. » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:36 pm

CeT-To wrote:oh thanx its good that im on the right track, ive been meaning to understand the resurrection of the unrightous at the end times. Ahh i finally understand on what they are going to be judged mmhmm. So i have another question im a tad skeptical on these Near Death Experiences about hell and everything :? since ive read some of them where they are very contradictory, i think i remember reading one where this woman went to heaven and there was this angel and it laughed when she asked it about sin and said that it was nothing, the angel was saying that satan wasnt even around anymore. LOL which actually sounds like satan to me :econfused: , i mean maybe lucifer can actually trick you through near death experiences which is actually an extremely powerful method of deceiving because we all know lucifer isnt some red guy with pitch forks, horns and a devil tail :twisted: , he is the most beautiful angel ( looks wise haha) and thats a great asset of his to decieve :| .
There is this principle of truth that the bible has that applies here found in:

2 Corinthians 11:14, 15 - "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds...." NASB

Praise God for the discernment you have in this! The devil and his minions can certainly trick and deceive people in such matters so as to have more people later on believe a lie and are lulled asleep. Someone should have asked this woman you spoke of if this angel statement was true, why then is there still evil in this world?

1 Corinthians 6:3, “…Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?” NASB
CeT-To wrote:So do you have any idea on how these NDEs are true? (sorry for double post i left out the actual question :lol: )
I would say some are, but the recipients did not stay mortally dead long enough to actually discern their true location because they were resuscitated back to life before they realized what was going on.

Such a thing as an NDE is an overwhelming experience: Much like awakening into a new reality fully aware. Best description that better illustrates this would be for a person to have been born with their full intelligence, reason, speech, thoughts, knowledge, etc, fully complete without the benefit of having to grow up into these as from a child.

In other words, childhood is missed by being born into complete adulthood instead lacking the knowledge of world you now see — that would be a shock to one's system. So I can understand how people can misunderstand what they experience as they did not have adequate time to acclimate to it.
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Re: going to hell?

#233

Post by CeT-To » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:27 pm

Excellent explaination B.W. i finally understand now :D

And yes i have praised God for the understanding i have in matters such as 2 Corinthians 11:14, 15 :amen:

1 Corinthians 6:3 Wow i didnt know we are going to judge angels, is this because we are going to share christ's role in the end times? since (i think) we are going to be one with Jesus when we go to heaven as he is the Book of Life. Am i right?
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#234

Post by B. W. » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:10 am

CeT-To wrote:Excellent explaination B.W. i finally understand now :D

And yes i have praised God for the understanding i have in matters such as 2 Corinthians 11:14, 15 :amen:

1 Corinthians 6:3 Wow i didnt know we are going to judge angels, is this because we are going to share christ's role in the end times? since (i think) we are going to be one with Jesus when we go to heaven as he is the Book of Life. Am i right?

Albert Barnes' Commentary has this to say about this verse and it should help you gain insight into this verse Below:
1 Co 6:3

Shall judge angels - All the angels that shall be judged, good or bad. Probably the reference is to fallen angels, as there is no account that holy angels will then undergo a trial. The sense is, “Christians will be qualified to see the justice of even the sentence which is pronounced on fallen angels. They will be able so to embrace and comprehend the nature of law, and the interests of justice, as to see the propriety of their condemnation. And if they can so far enter into these important and eternal relations, assuredly they ought to be regarded as qualified to discern the nature of justice 'among men,' and to settle the unimportant differences which may arise in the church.” Or, perhaps, this may mean that the saints shall in the future world be raised to a rank in some respects more elevated than even the angels in heaven. (Prof. Stuart.) In what respects they will be thus elevated, if this is the true interpretation, can be only a matter of conjecture. It may be supposed that it will be because they have been favored by being interested in the plan of salvation - a plan that has done so much to honor God; and that “to have been” thus saved by the “immediate and painful” intervention of the Son of God, will be a higher honor than all the privileges which beings can enjoy who are innocent themselves.
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Re: going to hell?

#235

Post by CeT-To » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:09 am

mmmhmm sounds about right. Another question i have is how does God distinguish between who goes in which part of Sheol, i mean i can see why people like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went to Paradise because they did what God asked of them but what about the people who died before them? or after them before the Mosiac law arose?? How were they distinguished between righteous and unrighteous to be in paradise or not if there was no law to distinguish them in? :?

thanx B.W. by the way for anwering the other questions

God bless you
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#236

Post by B. W. » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:08 am

CeT-To wrote:mmmhmm sounds about right. Another question i have is how does God distinguish between who goes in which part of Sheol, i mean i can see why people like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob went to Paradise because they did what God asked of them but what about the people who died before them? or after them before the Mosiac law arose?? How were they distinguished between righteous and unrighteous to be in paradise or not if there was no law to distinguish them in? :?

thanx B.W. by the way for anwering the other questions

God bless you
Before Christ came Abraham Believed God. Believed translated here comes from the Greek workd Faith and used in Romans 4:3 in verb from Faith and would look like this Faithed. Therefore those whom were in Paradise were those who Faithed in God. That is the principle being set forth in Romans 4:3 that only those that Faithed in God were accounted righteous before God and entered paradise. Such people Faithed in the correct, true, and only God so anyone not Faithing in the ture God but another false God or system would not be in Paradise - all roads do not lead to heaven but rather judgment.

Romans 4:3 quotes Genesis 15:6 and the Hebrew used in Genesis uses the word āman for believe / faith. When trying to understand what faith / believe means you need to look at both these words from Greek and Hebrew. Basically, Faith / believe means to become fully convinced, persuaded so that you join yourself to the object of faith. The Hebrew word āman contains another element and that is of Nurture. Therefore Abraham became fully convinced, persuaded in God's ability to nurture that he joined himself to God for that purpose of being nurtured and transformed into the father of many nations and the one whom all nations could become blessed.

That is the principle essence of faith - believing - become fully convinced, persuaded to be united with the nurture God will provide that one joins themselves to the Lord. Jesus stated in John 3:16 everyone that believes in him has everlasting life. So salvation is cemented by becoming fully convinced and persuaded to be united with the nurture God brings through Christ so much so that it changes the course of one's life taking them out of darkness into His marvelous light. Abraham did not sit in UR just believing - he Got up and became united to God following the trail of change to the promised land. He trusted in the Lord's nurture that such unity provides when one becomes united in the will and purposes of God. That is Faith and what it means to believe.

That is why such people like Abraham found faith and entered Paradise before Christ came: they were fully convinced to become united with God who Nurtures one into the Promises God gives.
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Re: going to hell?

#237

Post by CeT-To » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:30 am

so you think there were others like Abraham who God spoke to at that time or before? but i mean was everyone given that same chance as Abraham was?
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: going to hell?

#238

Post by B. W. » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:07 pm

CeT-To wrote:so you think there were others like Abraham who God spoke to at that time or before? but i mean was everyone given that same chance as Abraham was?
Well, what does te bible say about this? Genesis 4:6 - God spoke with Cain and then in Genesis 4:26 it states that at the time of Enosh that men began to call upon (or live after) the name of the Lord...

Also Enoch walked with the Lord as Genesis 5:24 says - so he must of known the Lord better than most!

So you can see that the bible does support that, yes, God did speak to other people. Did Cain listen? - and after people began calling on the name of the Lord, did they keep calling or living after the name of ther Lord? Some probably did - vast majority - fell away in my opinion based upon what Romans 5:12 says...

It seems that Hebrews 1:1 suggest that God did speak through the Prophets and to individuals as well before Christ came on earth 2000 years ago.

And yes, the Lord does speak to people today awakening them to their need in Him too...

We may change but the Lord does not - he still speaks but either we don't listen, or refuse too,or we do...
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Re: going to hell?

#239

Post by B. W. » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:02 am

Hi CeT-To,

Did the above comment help you discover an answer, or provides answers, to your question?
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Re: going to hell?

#240

Post by CeT-To » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:23 am

B. W. wrote:Hi CeT-To,

Did the above comment help you discover an answer, or provides answers, to your question?
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Hey B.W.,

Yes actually! hehe but ummm i think i had a question let me think LOL hmmmmmm oh yes! remember the lazarus story, well i was thinking.. do you think the rich man had actual faith in YWHW? because i think you stated that you are deemed righteous if you have faith in God. Well im askin this because im kind of sketchy that there is the bad side of sheol :? although it does make sense with the whole judgement subject and it does fit into what the bible says hahah actually i think i know what my problem :P what do they do in bad side of sheol ..well sheol now (since paradies in sheol is gone)?? from the story it sounds like the rich man is a place of fire...sooo why would he be moved from there to the burning lake of fire..sounds like the same thing to me. :|

Any idea B.W. i would much appreciate your help :ewink: thanxxx
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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