going to hell?

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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Re: going to hell?

#181

Post by catherine » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:54 am

Thank you for your private message and for explaining things, but I am still having problems with this. If he violated the board, was he warned he had done this? and given the benefit of the doubt? Reading both his posts, I'd agree he seemed to be causing mischief. I've just read Run Baby Run, and a man was 'causing mischief' at one of Nicky's street evangelism meetings. He was trying to disrupt the preaching, but it turned out he needed help and Nicky helped him to come back to God. I am sorry to 'question' your authority but any one in authority should be prepared to answer any issues such as this and thank you for doing so. I still think you were unloving in your approach. I once foolishly thought I could reason with atheists on Richard Dawkin's site and I got my ass whooped, but there were some there who were reasonable and didn't mind debating things such as DNA- is this proof of a creator. I just think we should set a higher standard of trying to help someone.

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Re: going to hell?

#182

Post by Zebulon » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:53 am

catherine wrote: If he violated the board, was he warned he had done this? and given the benefit of the doubt? Reading both his posts, I'd agree he seemed to be causing mischief... ...I just think we should set a higher standard of trying to help someone.
Hey don t go away you shmok! I like you. I also find that he had been kiked out quite quickly but:

In 1995 when I was younger, beautiful and a fantastic guy (today I have to admit I am less younger ;o) and the Internet was at its start, I joined one of the first blog on the Net. Security at the time was comme-ci comme-ca, not to say niet, none, ridiculously absent. We where a group of 20 + people discussing various subjects. One member was so nice at the beginning, and after 1 year became so malicious that we had to close the Newsgroup. We simply letted him play his role because of freedom of speach. We lost our site and many friendship had gone corrupted because of him.

Just my 2 pennies...

...and if you go away well y>:D< tell me where you are !

Zebulon

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Re: going to hell?

#183

Post by Byblos » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:57 am

catherine wrote:Thank you for your private message and for explaining things, but I am still having problems with this. If he violated the board, was he warned he had done this? and given the benefit of the doubt? Reading both his posts, I'd agree he seemed to be causing mischief. I've just read Run Baby Run, and a man was 'causing mischief' at one of Nicky's street evangelism meetings. He was trying to disrupt the preaching, but it turned out he needed help and Nicky helped him to come back to God. I am sorry to 'question' your authority but any one in authority should be prepared to answer any issues such as this and thank you for doing so. I still think you were unloving in your approach. I once foolishly thought I could reason with atheists on Richard Dawkin's site and I got my *** whooped, but there were some there who were reasonable and didn't mind debating things such as DNA- is this proof of a creator. I just think we should set a higher standard of trying to help someone.
Catherine,

I appreciate what you're saying and disagree with nothing. It was a judgment call I had to make and, while I admit it might look a little hasty to others, sometimes we have nothing more than a gut feeling to go on. I will keep your advice in mind in the future. Agree with them or not, I find your posts very level-headed and very much wish that you would stick around.

God bless,

Byblos.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: going to hell?

#184

Post by catherine » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:09 pm

Hi Zebulon, I wouldn't go without telling you where I went. I spotted you on the Revelation discussion site ;) . I've thrown my dummy out the pram, as we brits sometimes say, so I'd better pick it back up. I completely understand that it is necessary to remove people who only want to disrupt and cause trouble. I just think that sending them on their way with some positive words rather than sarcastic comments would be more fitting, otherwise you can appear no better than them. I feel sorry for Bane. Maybe someone could have got through to him? We'll never know. Anyway, God can sort him out some other place. I've been trying to find a forum or chat room preferably ( forums are a lot slower I think) where atheists can debate with theists, but the only one I found had been taken down. It seems both sides don't want to debate with each other! :wave:

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Re: going to hell?

#185

Post by catherine » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:21 pm

Hi Byblos, I didn't see your last post there. Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry if I have had a go at you on here. I would have messaged you privately, but posted here in case Bane visited as a guest. I'm quite hot headed and emotional hence the strong posts on here. I have family members who are atheists, so I love to talk to atheists as I am intrigued as to why they believe what they do. I always remember talking to a staunch atheist (he was a full on vegan and atheist- a lethal combination) and one day (we worked together) we were having our usual discussion about God. He said to me: 'Who made God?' So I said: 'Well, 'God' is not like anything we are used to, in the physical sense, God has always existed. God is the first cause and has no beginning. I can't remember my exact words. This man looked puzzled for a minute and then said 'that's a good point, hmmmmm'. Who knows, maybe that little seed got through to him. That's my only 'break through' so far. :ewink:

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Re: going to hell?

#186

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:23 pm

.
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How does one tell which members are banned? I can't tell that bane is banned from his/her post...in other forums, the title changes to "Banned"...here I don't see any such thing.
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Re: going to hell?

#187

Post by Byblos » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:30 pm

catherine wrote:Hi Byblos, I didn't see your last post there. Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry if I have had a go at you on here. I would have messaged you privately, but posted here in case Bane visited as a guest. I'm quite hot headed and emotional hence the strong posts on here. I have family members who are atheists, so I love to talk to atheists as I am intrigued as to why they believe what they do. I always remember talking to a staunch atheist (he was a full on vegan and atheist- a lethal combination) and one day (we worked together) we were having our usual discussion about God. He said to me: 'Who made God?' So I said: 'Well, 'God' is not like anything we are used to, in the physical sense, God has always existed. God is the first cause and has no beginning. I can't remember my exact words. This man looked puzzled for a minute and then said 'that's a good point, hmmmmm'. Who knows, maybe that little seed got through to him. That's my only 'break through' so far. :ewink:
No need to apologize (you're not the only one afflicted with hotheadedness). Bane caught me on a very bad day; not that he didn't deserve to be banned but, in retrospect, I could have used a little more tact.

BavarianWheels wrote:.
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How does one tell which members are banned? I can't tell that bane is banned from his/her post...in other forums, the title changes to "Banned"...here I don't see any such thing.
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I told her in a PM.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: going to hell?

#188

Post by Zebulon » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:20 pm

catherine wrote:Hi Zebulon, I wouldn't go without telling you where I went.
You'd better! :ewink:
catherine wrote:I've thrown my dummy out the pram, as we brits sometimes say, so I'd better pick it back up.
Hu? Sorry but I did not get this one as for I am of Moliere's tongue... I'm anxious to have a definition if I ever go to Brit... ;)
catherine wrote:sending them on their way with some positive words rather than sarcastic comments would be more fitting, otherwise you can appear no better than them.
I agree. And I think Kureio agrees to. Like he said, he had a bad day... so did Jesus one day at the Temple, wrecking stuff and things... It was his temple. So does this site is Kureio's...
catherine wrote:I feel sorry for Bane. Maybe someone could have got through to him? We'll never know. Anyway, God can sort him out some other place. I've been trying to find a forum or chat room preferably ( forums are a lot slower I think) where atheists can debate with theists, but the only one I found had been taken down. It seems both sides don't want to debate with each other!
Well it is true. And one can become Atheist and come back to God. Mother Theresa had admitted being some part of her life in gread doubths concerning God, witch never stopped her of helping others...

Zebulon

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Re: going to hell?

#189

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:29 pm

Byblos wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:How does one tell which members are banned? I can't tell that bane is banned from his/her post...in other forums, the title changes to "Banned"...here I don't see any such thing.
I told her in a PM.
I guess there's no flag or signal that would say so? Oh.
.
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Re: going to hell?

#190

Post by cslewislover » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:11 am

Kurieuo and Canuckster, I really like what you wrote earlier about your experiences and looking into theology (page 7?). Anyway, yay! I was not raised in a Christian home, so I did not have preconceived theological ideas (well, except the bad things my mom said about the Catholic church). When I became a Christian, I began going to a nondenominational Christian church (but it was somewhat close to The Disciples of Christ). I have been going to Calvary Chapels now for some time, which is almost denominational. The pastors are different and I don't agree with all of them.

As far as these basic doctrines of the church goes, it's obvious that there are indeed basic Christian doctrines that have been around for 2000 years. I've read lots of books too, trying to know more about my faith. It's easy these days (at least in the Western world) to get a few books on traditional Christian doctrine, by different authors, and compare them. Then if you are confused about something, or heard someone say something different, to research that. But I think the burden to justify a nonstandard doctrine is on the person trying to claim that the vast majority of Christians from the last 2000 years have all been wrong somehow.

And Byblos, here's a y>:D< for the difficulty you've been going through here.

Congrats, BW, on your book! That's exciting, and I'll have to check it out. Have you ever seen or read Hell? Yes! by a baptist pastor? I'm not sure if I have it anymore (if I do, it's in a certain messy pile in this office here, lol, and I don't want to shuffle through it at the moment :lol: to find the author's name), but I had read it because of the questions people have about hell. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.
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Re: going to hell?

#191

Post by Byblos » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:49 am

cslewislover wrote:And Byblos, here's a y>:D< for the difficulty you've been going through here.
Difficulty? Where? But I'll take the hug anyway :wink:.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: going to hell?

#192

Post by Lufia » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:22 pm

Thanks a lot B.W.

I still have difficulty with hell and those who are going there, but you're making me think a lot. And i'll read your book a second time.

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Re: going to hell?

#193

Post by cslewislover » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:45 pm

Byblos wrote:
cslewislover wrote:And Byblos, here's a y>:D< for the difficulty you've been going through here.
Difficulty? Where? But I'll take the hug anyway :wink:.
Lol. Being questioned about your judgement, having to ban someone, etc. I get emotional about that kind-of stuff (I guess it's called "insecurity" :) ).
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Re: going to hell?

#194

Post by catherine » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Hi B.W, I've been reading your 'Study of Psalm 88:1-9' and would like to clarify some points. In part 3 you say: 'Sheol in the Old Testament refers to the abode of the dead and used synonymously with the Pit, Hell, Hades, Chambers of death, grave, etc. It is a place inhabited by 'shades.'' And you also say: 'Only those that are cut off from the Lord go into this place called the Pit'.

Are you saying then that only wicked people, ie people who are eternally damned or 'unsaved' go to sheol? And if you are saying that, where did people like David, Job etc go when they died? Forgive me if you answered these questions, but it's quite a long article and I may have missed parts unintentionally.....

regards

Catherine

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Re: going to hell?

#195

Post by obsolete » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:56 pm

Not to cut in on B.W., but my understanding about Sheol is that there are two aspects of it.

1.) Torment-were people who rejected God are

2.) Paradise-were people who followed God, i.e.-Job, Moses, Abraham, David, are

When Jesus looked at the thief hanging on the cross beside Him, He said that he(the thief) would be in "Paradise" with Jesus. Jesus didn't say Heaven. Because it wasn't prepared yet. Even Job says in Ch. 2 that he will again "look upon God's temple once again."

There is a great chasm that seperates the two sides that cannot be crossed. Jesus used this place, and He says it as fact, when talking about Lazarus and the rich man. If it were just another parable, I don't think He would have used Lazarus by name.

From the side of Paradise, I believe, God's Holy Temple can be seen. But after Christ asended up to Heaven to "prepare a place" for His deciples and for us, all of those on the side of paradise went with Him. I believe that those who are on the side of Torment, are still there until the Judgement Seat of Christ.
Jesus died for ALL. End of story.

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