General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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KrisW
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#46
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by KrisW » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:57 am
Canuckster1127 wrote: I believe the Holy Spirit is described as a person in the Scripture with attributes of God and Attributes of an independent entity.
I tend to be less specific, defining the Holy Spirit as "being" rather that a person. I find it interesting that while we humans often depict God in anthropomorphic terms (the old man with a long white beard), the Holy Spirit is depicted as a dove or a bolt of electricty or something else.
I think the sects of Judiasm that claim the Holy Spirit is a 'force' deserve some serious study.
When fascism come to America it will be wearing black robes and carrying the scales of Justice("but don't touch the oil or the wine")
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jenna
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#47
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by jenna » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:01 am
Yes, we are agreed that God is omnipresent. But notice that even Jesus could not do anything without the power of God, or the Holy Spirit that God gave Him. If God didn't use the Spirit, then Jesus could not have done what He set out to do. If the Holy Spirit, or God, as you seem to see it, were everywhere, then Jesus wouldn't have needed God to give it to Him.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
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Gman
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#48
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by Gman » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:02 am
jenwat3 wrote:Sounds good to me! I don't cut and paste anyway, still haven't figured out how. But I'm ready and willing when you are!
Jen, I think you said before that you are not a Jehovah's witness. Are you from the The Way International? What denomination do you associate with? Just curious... Thanks.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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jenna
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#49
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by jenna » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:04 am
Way International? What's that? Never heard of them. And I'm nondenominational.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
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Gman
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#50
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by Gman » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:09 am
jenwat3 wrote:Way International? What's that? Never heard of them. And I'm nondenominational.
You don't want to know... About the Trinity, you will find your answers
here and
here.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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jenna
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#51
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by jenna » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:13 am
No offense, but as canuckster stated, we are trying to talk about the trinity without cutting and pasting or providing links. Scripture only. It takes alot of time to read long links, and it can be frustrating at times.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
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Gman
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#52
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by Gman » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:15 am
jenwat3 wrote:No offense, but as canuckster stated, we are trying to talk about the trinity without cutting and pasting or providing links. Scripture only. It takes alot of time to read long links, and it can be frustrating at times.
One of those links was scripture only...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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jenna
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#53
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by jenna » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:16 am
Yes, it was. It was alot of scriptures. Can we do one at a time?
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
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Gman
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#54
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by Gman » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:34 am
jenwat3 wrote:Yes, it was. It was alot of scriptures. Can we do one at a time?
Fire away... Be aware though that you will find in scripture that Jesus was both man AND God at the same time. What we need to understand first is the basic underlying message that God dies for man. It was not that man died for God.... Once you understand this simple concept, I believe you will understand the love of God.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Gman
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#55
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by Gman » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:47 am
You there?
Just answer this simple question first. Was it that man died for God or was it God dieing for man? hint: Man already gave his sacrifice back in the OT with the sacrifice of Issac. Is man going to sacrifice to God again? Who's turn is it next?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Canuckster1127
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#56
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by Canuckster1127 » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:34 am
jenwat3 wrote:Yes, we are agreed that God is omnipresent. But notice that even Jesus could not do anything without the power of God, or the Holy Spirit that God gave Him. If God didn't use the Spirit, then Jesus could not have done what He set out to do. If the Holy Spirit, or God, as you seem to see it, were everywhere, then Jesus wouldn't have needed God to give it to Him.
Jesus, however is another matter. Phillipians 2:5-11 speaks of Jesus "emptying" himself of things that were His to have as God, in order that he would become as were we, or human. This is usually referred to theologically as the hypostatic union and is the idea that Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God, yet another mystery.
We're speaking of the Holy Spirit however and respectfully I don't see how your answer addresses the passage we've agreed to start with.
What do you think Psalm 139 means in terms of omnipresence? Is the Holy Spirit omnipresent?
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
//bartsbarometer.com/
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KrisW
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#57
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by KrisW » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:57 pm
jenwat3 wrote:Way International? What's that? Never heard of them. And I'm nondenominational.
:::engage...irreverant comment mode:::
:::access database....Furturama character...Farnsworth, Dr., Hubert J::::
If only she could have joinged a mainstream religion...like Oprahism or voodoo
:::end transmission::::
When fascism come to America it will be wearing black robes and carrying the scales of Justice("but don't touch the oil or the wine")
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FFC
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#58
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by FFC » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:19 pm
Kris wrote::::engage...irreverant comment mode:::
What mode were you in before?
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom
Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?
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zoegirl
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#59
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by zoegirl » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:20 pm
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KrisW
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#60
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by KrisW » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:33 pm
My Thread about Christians engaging in Polemics (among other posts) was QUITE serious...
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =3&t=32819
I see it hasn't been answered yet....
You can add the question of why some Christian's get so anal about the spelling of "neutrino" to the topic as well.
When fascism come to America it will be wearing black robes and carrying the scales of Justice("but don't touch the oil or the wine")
