The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

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BavarianWheels
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#166

Post by BavarianWheels » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:09 am

NIV - Matt. 28:18-20 wrote:Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in* the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you...
???
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#167

Post by jenna » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:14 am

Speaking of baptism only here.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#168

Post by BavarianWheels » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:32 am

jenna wrote:Speaking of baptism only here.
Great, I agree. Why baptize into three names...one being ficticious? Is God playing with our heads here or something?
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#169

Post by jenna » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:54 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
jenna wrote:Speaking of baptism only here.
Great, I agree. Why baptize into three names...one being ficticious? Is God playing with our heads here or something?
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No, of course not. And the Holy Spirit isn't ficticious. This answer was given in another post. The Holy spirit is given when we are baptized, that is why all three are mentioned here.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#170

Post by BavarianWheels » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:16 am

jenna wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:
jenna wrote:Speaking of baptism only here.
Great, I agree. Why baptize into three names...one being ficticious? Is God playing with our heads here or something?
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No, of course not. And the Holy Spirit isn't ficticious. This answer was given in another post. The Holy spirit is given when we are baptized, that is why all three are mentioned here.
Can a mind conceive a child?
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#171

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:19 am

jenna wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:
jenna wrote:Speaking of baptism only here.
Great, I agree. Why baptize into three names...one being ficticious? Is God playing with our heads here or something?
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No, of course not. And the Holy Spirit isn't ficticious. This answer was given in another post. The Holy spirit is given when we are baptized, that is why all three are mentioned here.
That doesn't add up. The name of the Holy Spirit is given as equal to that of the Father and the Son. A "thing" or "impersonal force" would not be given a name equal to that of the Father and the Son. This combined with the personal pronouns, gender and all of the attributes of God which are attributed to the Holy Spirit makes the logic of attempting to make this a special case, very tortured and inconsistent in my opinion.
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#172

Post by Gman » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:50 pm

jenna wrote:Yes, I agree that Jesus is God. He is God the SON. Just as there is God the FATHER.
Well that's 2/3 of the trinity. Just add the Holy Spirit which is also God and you are set.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#173

Post by BavarianWheels » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:17 pm

Gman wrote:
jenna wrote:Yes, I agree that Jesus is God. He is God the SON. Just as there is God the FATHER.
Well that's 2/3 of the trinity. Just add the Holy Spirit which is also God and you are set.
Someone school me on the original (greek?) text on, Matthew 28:19.
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#174

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:00 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
Gman wrote:
jenna wrote:Yes, I agree that Jesus is God. He is God the SON. Just as there is God the FATHER.
Well that's 2/3 of the trinity. Just add the Holy Spirit which is also God and you are set.
Someone school me on the original (greek?) text on, Matthew 28:19.
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Here's a reasonably good commentary I found on the web, tied into other Trinity sites for those interested.

Jac is a good man to answer these things. My Greek is very rusty but I know enough to be dangerous and find and evaluate materials related to it.

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/web/Trinity7.htm
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#175

Post by BavarianWheels » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:20 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:
BavarianWheels wrote:
Gman wrote:
jenna wrote:Yes, I agree that Jesus is God. He is God the SON. Just as there is God the FATHER.
Well that's 2/3 of the trinity. Just add the Holy Spirit which is also God and you are set.
Someone school me on the original (greek?) text on, Matthew 28:19.
.
.
Here's a reasonably good commentary I found on the web, tied into other Trinity sites for those interested.

Jac is a good man to answer these things. My Greek is very rusty but I know enough to be dangerous and find and evaluate materials related to it.

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/web/Trinity7.htm
That helps me a lot. Thank you. The Greek states it as I thought.
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#176

Post by jenna » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:51 am

Can a mind conceive a child? No, of course not. But notice the Holy Spirit is also the POWER of God. It can also be called the "seed". (1John 3:9) Just as a HUMAN father begets a son through his seed, so has God. Your question could be similar to saying "Who is the actual father of a human child, the sperm or the man?" The child is created THROUGH the seed, but BY the man. So God is the Father of Christ, through His "seed", the Holy Spirit.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#177

Post by BavarianWheels » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:24 am

jenna wrote:Can a mind conceive a child? No, of course not. But notice the Holy Spirit is also the POWER of God. It can also be called the "seed". (1John 3:9) Just as a HUMAN father begets a son through his seed, so has God. Your question could be similar to saying "Who is the actual father of a human child, the sperm or the man?" The child is created THROUGH the seed, but BY the man. So God is the Father of Christ, through His "seed", the Holy Spirit.
Well If my sperm is the father of my child...I'm paying for someone elses children! God didn't create sperm to be fathers, but Humans. Likewise, an entity (the HS) has been given to us. The HS takes our sinful words and communicates them to God the Father. In your belief, God the Father hears our words and translates them to Himself, for Himself to understand. (Romans 8:26)
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#178

Post by jenna » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:14 pm

No, that's not correct. The only way for God to hear us is through Jesus. That is why we pray "in Jesus's name". He is our mediator, not the Holy Spirit. And I think you may have misunderstood me about the sperm. I didn't say the sperm was the father. I said that the man begot a child THROUGH the sperm. The man is the actual father. God is the Father, Christ is the Son, begotten through the Holy Spirit.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#179

Post by BavarianWheels » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:31 pm

jenna wrote:No, that's not correct. The only way for God to hear us is through Jesus. That is why we pray "in Jesus's name". He is our mediator, not the Holy Spirit.
I guess Romans 8:26 is a lie.
jenna wrote:And I think you may have misunderstood me about the sperm. I didn't say the sperm was the father. I said that the man begot a child THROUGH the sperm. The man is the actual father. God is the Father, Christ is the Son, begotten through the Holy Spirit.
So humans have their own "holy spirit" within themselves apart from the real Holy Spirit? Afterall...we are created in the image of God. Isn't it you that has stated (as I believe) that humans ARE souls...they don't HAVE souls?
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Re: The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

#180

Post by jenna » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:45 pm

Yes, that would be me who said that. Genesis 2:7 "...and man became a living soul". BECAME a living soul, not WAS GIVEN a soul. Man has a spirit, yes. Proverbs 20:27. No one can come to the Father but by Me. I don't know the exact verse, but is it a lie?
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them

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