madscientist wrote: Swamper wrote:
What the Bible Says
To be saved, you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31), but the Sacred Scriptures show other things you must also do to be saved.
You must endure to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.
You must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27.
You must be baptized with water. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5 Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21.
You must be a member in God's true church. Acts 2:47.
You must confess your sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9
You must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21
You must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.
You must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16, I Corinthians 11:23-29
Hmm i think all of those are somewhat necessary however i would be unsure on one: baptized with water. i heard some saying, oe maybe even read on G&S website that baptizing is not what absolutely needs to be done for salation. But arent those "other things" part of belief in God? Sub-parts of belief? And one question whoch always bothereed me with this is this one: Why exactly we need to eat flesh and drink blood of Jesus? How often do we need to take Holy Communion? Isnt confession enough? What if we believe, confess, redempt, accept etc but still do not take HC often enough i.e. we go once a year? Is this acceptable? IS HC needed for salvation? And often confessing?
Well for starters: To be saved, you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ Acts 16:31 no debate for me here.
However what is meant in their discussion ... "but the Sacred Scriptures show other things you must also do to be saved
What other things???
I would suggest a study of the Greek and Hebrew words for believe
. The best picture one can give about believing in someone and having faith in someone is by looking at marriage.
Much of the imagery given in the bible was common knowledge to the first century Jewish and Christian communities. Much of this has been lost to our modern understanding.
For example, the breaking of bread and sharing the Cup was used in marriage ceremony to say to each — "I am committed to you, all I have is yours, all I own is yours, all I am is yours, I give you all my hopes and dreams, all my wealth is yours, I hold nothing back to you, I will feed you and give the blood of my life for you — I love you that much
That is what the Holy Communion or Eucharist used to mean — you were not only saying that to the Lord but also to those members in your local church: and as often you do this do in remembrance of Christ
and that we who love God must also love our brothers and sisters in Christ likewise.
This concept has been lost in most of the church world today, yet that is what it meant back then. The Holy Communion or Eucharist was a remembrance of Christ love, not a means of salvation, or to stay saved but rather ones continued commitment to Christ and his bride — the church and that means between Christians in a local fellowship. Can you trust, depend, rely on the person sitting next to you in Church? See how far we fallen from this concept?
To believe and have faith in someone is similar to the concept of what marriage is and how it comes about. The man proves his love to his betrothed by displays of character [in arranged marriages giving of gifts depending on custom of the era] and she in turns does likewise. During this courtship time trust builds between the two and they get married and this builds a bond between two built on trust and faith as each grow together as they take care of the gift of life in marriage.
I like how one pastor put it — to believe in Christ comes by his great display of love towards us. Too believe is to trust, commit, rely, depend on, remain forever loyal too, Christ Jesus and this means: "all I have is yours, all I own is yours, all I am is yours, I give you all my hopes and dreams, all my wealth is yours, I hold nothing back to you, I will feed you and give the blood of my life for you — I love you that much Lord because I know you love me and we will never betray each other no matter life's course.
" That is saving faith plain and simple. We need kind of commitment in the body of Christ today.
As for baptism, it simply means to be placed into or immersed in something. Again referring to the marriage ceremony bath or cleansing rite before marriage: symbolizing getting rid of the filth of the world and union with Christ and his church. It had nothing to do with salvation but rather identification with Christ and his church as pure before God and man. Do we live this or fake it? Does our manner of behavior reflect what we were baptized into?
You see, these concepts were lost through the passage of time and other ideas took their place. Maybe to fake it more than live it? Who knows?
If you mention the marriage aspect of faith and believe now days, many people would not understand what you mean and instead twist it to mean something other than fidelity, loyalty, commitment through thick or thin, trust, reliance, dependability, built on and by [ever learning] love.
I guess it would be easier to argue the merits of Lordship salvation verses Baptism and Church rites than what it really means to believe in Christ.
Can you say to the Lord, “all I have is yours, all I own is yours, all I am is yours, I give you all my hopes and dreams, all my church works and activities I give up to you, all my wealth is yours, I hold nothing back for you, I will feed you and give the blood of my life for you — I love you that much Lord because I know you love me and we will never betray each other no matter life's course.”
Peter was confronted with this very concept I am speaking about and Peter, grieved, answered it, “Lord you know all things that I love
you… Then Jesus answered him “feed my sheep...” John 21:2-19.