Forgiveness without repentance?

Whether you are new or just lurking, take a moment to introduce yourself or discuss something general.
Post Reply
User avatar
Nessa
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 314 times

Forgiveness without repentance?

#1

Post by Nessa » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:11 pm

This whole complaint experience has left me thinking about forgiveness.

I always assumed that for a Christian, forgiveness is unconditional but is it?

At the moment reading through..


https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-b ... nce-part-1

User avatar
Nessa
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 314 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#2

Post by Nessa » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:18 pm

Also it's not just about repentance but there is no actual acknowledgement of wrong doing.

So many times in the OT, God seems to say something like 'If only you would acknowledge what you have done' etc.

My problem is the complete denial of actual events that took place or words said. Not just that they aren't sorry.

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8741
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 420 times
Been liked: 663 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#3

Post by Philip » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:38 pm

God had every right to assert His covenant people admit their sins - but we are not God. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget, only that we forgive. And forgiveness frees one from harboring and obsessing over people's sin against us. It is effectively freeing, even if the transgressor remains unrepentant toward us. Unforgiveness can keep one emotionally and spiritually In agony and internal turmoil! Let it GO, Ness, give it over to God and seek His help in forgiving, and thus, healing!

User avatar
Nessa
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 314 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#4

Post by Nessa » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:46 pm

Philip wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:38 pm
God had every right to assert His covenant people admit their sins - but we are not God. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget, only that we forgive. And forgiveness frees one from harboring and obsessing over people's sin against us. It is effectively freeing, even if the transgressor remains unrepentant toward us. Unforgiveness can keep one emotionally and spiritually In agony and internal turmoil! Let it GO, Ness, give it over to God and seek His help in forgiving, and thus, healing!
You just had to say those three little words...


User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 21925
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 207 times
Been liked: 1139 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#5

Post by RickD » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:41 am

Nessa,

In your situation, forgiveness is for you. You should forgive, so this whole thing doesn’t eat you up inside.

Give it to God. Let Him deal with it.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 349 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#6

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:59 am

Forgiveness is, in some ways, a gift we give ourselves.
When we forgive another for a wrong they have done us, we release OURSELVES from carrying around the emotional baggage of what they have done.
Only forgiveness starts the healing process.
It's the hardest thing to do BUT the one thing we MUST do, in order to move on.
Why allow what someone has done or said to stop us from going on? from growing? why allow what someone has done to contaminate us? to change us?

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8741
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 420 times
Been liked: 663 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#7

Post by Philip » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:40 am

Great to see Paul back!!! We've missed his input around here.
Rick: Nessa, In your situation, forgiveness is for you. You should forgive, so this whole thing doesn’t eat you up inside.

Give it to God. Let Him deal with it.
Rick is absolutely right! And remember, forgiveness - which Christ says to do - if its ability to heal US were dependent upon our offender first desiring it and admitting their transgressions, showing regret, etc., then we would still be under their "power" to continually hurt us over their past actions and words. Forgiveness bypasses whatever reaction of transgressor and doesn't even need it - nor should it.

User avatar
Nessa
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 314 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#8

Post by Nessa » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:10 pm

Oh well, I guess I will give up looking for a loop hole then that gets me out of forgiving him :lol:

But seriously, it's not just about me. He does workshops around NZ teaching other psychologists and is in full time private practice. He really isn't accountable to anyone here apart from God and he is a mormon.

So, it's also about the fact what he has done to me won't just stop at me.

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8741
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 420 times
Been liked: 663 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#9

Post by Philip » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:10 pm

Ness, kinda sounds like you've done all you could to expose him. So, just forgive and let go of it. Because as hard and as counterintuitive that may seem, it's ultimately far easier than continously carrying around an enormous sack of ongoing hurt!

PaulSacramento
Board Moderator
Posts: 9224
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has liked: 124 times
Been liked: 349 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#10

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:57 am

One of the hardest things for us to do is to "let it go".
Christ said to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to give unto Satan what is Satan's.
Not even God can stop people from being bad, can stop people from believing what they want, regardless of what is present to them.
Free Will.
Remember, there were those that SAW what Jesus did, witnessed the miracles and heard the teachings, LIVE and yet, they choose not to believe.
If God can't open the eyes of those that want their eyes shut, can we ?

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8741
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 420 times
Been liked: 663 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#11

Post by Philip » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:29 am

Paul: If God can't open the eyes of those that want their eyes shut, can we ?
I don't believe it's a matter that God can't do something - or ANYTHING, actually - because He's sovereign and all-powerful. I think it's more so that as He is the One who decided to give us us our free will, His Holy values also respect it, as He will not force anyone to love Him! And isn't FORCED love an oxymoron - as forced love would not be authentic! God didn't create programmed robots. But I do believe that God will take away any LEGITIMATE excuses for unbelief that would provide a person with an excuse of why they don't or can't currently believe. And the reasons for unbelief he lets unbelievers cling to are all self-created and maintained - again, merely are matters of the will.

I think there are two types of doubting unbelievers: Some have doubts - even serious ones - which they would sincerely like to know the truths relating to God and they are truly SEEKING the answers - but they STILL need God to open their minds and eyes to Himself. For such people, I believe God WILL open their eyes to whatever it is ANYONE truly needs to overcome their uncertainties and unbelief. But there is another type - and that is the person who embraces and CLINGS to their doubts and unbelief - only wanting to see what they've already convinced themselves of - as opposed to sincerely wanting to know the truth about God and His existence. And so that second type of person's unbelief is entirely self-maintained / self-serving and contained because they only want what THEY want - as they don't DESIRE whatever truths or insights might be gained concerning God. And so the second type will end up in a terrible eternity apart from the joy of spending it with the Lord, along with the awesome Forever that He has planned for those who will love Him!

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 10035
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 650 times
Been liked: 672 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#12

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:26 pm

Nessa wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:18 pm
Also it's not just about repentance but there is no actual acknowledgement of wrong doing.

So many times in the OT, God seems to say something like 'If only you would acknowledge what you have done' etc.

My problem is the complete denial of actual events that took place or words said. Not just that they aren't sorry.
Reminds me of something that happened a few years back. Maybe you should read over your words to me then. ;)

Re: Christ, God demonstrates His forgiveness is unconditional and open to all. He didn't wait for us to turn, because we never can fully. But rather, in Christ, came to wear the penalty due us. Now, we can receive God's love and forgiveness, rather than His righteous judgement and condemnation, but its only through Christ. Now just because some deny they've done wrong, or even that some sort of objective morality exists (except what aligns to their own subjective sentiments), such doesn't mean God's forgiveness isn't open and complete.

Sadly, some prefer to wear their own cross, due to perhaps pride or feeling they can be morally superioir than others, not knowing that such then forces God's hand to judge them accordingly when they fail and Paul (the Apostle) even says God will use their own conscience of their wrong-doing against them.

So then, as I wrote to you many years ago regarding my own situation, one can forgive, and forgive fully, but sadly (for those who'll miss out on your friendship and equally those who reject God's forgiveness) it takes two for a full reunion to take place. Those who can't even fess up to their own wrong-doing, and don't even see their own wrong / think it's all the other person, such creates a barrier that can't be gotten past. While reunion can't be had, you can honestly forgive them nonetheless.

What helped me, was praying to God, and then saying the words I forgive such and such and then naming everything I could think of which caused me angst. And even forgiving myself for stupid things I may have actually said or done. The moment I did that, there was a great release, and their power over me was snapped.

But then, sadly as you know in my own situation, full reunion doesn't seem possible here on earth. I see it will only take place hereafter when God lays everything bare of the what happened, who did what, etc and then we can just all finally be together. I look forward to that day.
These users liked this post by Kurieuo:
Nessa (Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:39 pm)
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 21925
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 207 times
Been liked: 1139 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#13

Post by RickD » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:54 am

Kurieuo wrote:
...The moment I did that, there was a great release, and their power over me was snapped...
Nessa,

This is a crucial point. People like the doctor use these tactics as a form of manipulation and control. Forgiveness is a way to release yourself from them having power over you.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Nessa
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:10 pm
Christian: Yes
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 314 times

Re: Forgiveness without repentance?

#14

Post by Nessa » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:46 pm

Yeah, you guys are right. It's just hard and diffinetly a process to work through.

I think the real issue is that I struggle to trust God with it so it makes it hard to let go.

Post Reply