Justhuman wrote: Hortator wrote:
Tell me, Hortator, does God in his omnipotent omniscience know the future?
Did Jesus, as the son of God, 'know' his future?
Then what is the point in doing something of which you know
the outcome in advance? Why put your own son through such a painfully and agonizing ordeal, to know that humans will let him die at a cross, and knowing you will resurrect him 3 days later.
What sacrifice was it for Jesus to die at the cross when he knew he would be resurrected 3 days later?
What use was it for humans because all was predetermined. They had no option than the one God chose for them.
Thus God didn't sacrifice his son, because to sacrifice something you need to 'loose' something. And what is there to loose for an omnipotent omniscient God?
How else could it be revealed, the human condition, all is foibles, schemes, self justifications, hubristic pride, violence, putting folks and God on trial, condemnation, be known, and dealt with if not for the Cross: after all it has got your attention!
What was there for God to lose?
To answer that, God remains true in the absolute sense to all that he is, all his character traits, nature, words, promises, gifts, callings, etc without and shadow of turning. He keeps his word and promises...
Therefore, if he cannot keep his word, then how can he remain God? He gave humanity great promises and callings, and one of these is reason and thought in a free manner. No matter what decisions people make, God works all things to prove himself true and incapable of breaking his word, promises, etc. This manner proves himself just and fair as well as all powerfully able to work through all things, justly toward all.
That is why the cross: to restore folks to the original call God charged human beings with as well as to reconcile us back to himself so we again can govern in the image and likeness of God's character traits we were fashioned to originally shine.
However, these things you do not understand as you are still putting God on trial in your mind with the intent to kill him for the greater good of materialism. In that, even today shows the power of the cross in your own life, exposing what is keeping you from God who came to save you.
Only God himself can save, no one else. Why?
Because we are imperfect and have too many motives and agendas that get in the way. I see you do not understand who Jesus is and make a play on God nature of oneness to entrap the unwary. Let’s deal with is...then, next, move on...
I know you cannot conceive of the orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The essence of substance of God is unlike anything we humans can image, yet, illustrations abound in nature pointing to the tri-unity of being, say, even in fruit. One Orange is all 100 percent orange, yet, the peal, the fruit, and the Juice are also all 100 percent all orange. They all share the same essence of being all orange.
God is unlike the orange, yet, he can send the fruit of himself to earth as a man to take care of the issues we human beings inflict upon each other as well as God. deal with it and reconcile us back to himself so we can again walk with God as originally designed and promised. In doing so, God can remain in Heaven holding all things together (peal) waiting to pour out his Spirit (the juice) into human beings to help them in this mortal life. This is the best illustration I can use to help you come to grips as to who Jesus is and why did He die.
He died to save your and mine's life.
He exposed what defiles us, as well as paid the full price for it, so we can come back to God and become what he originally planned for us to be and during this mortal life sealing and purifying us for the future task he promised and gave.
To refine gold, one must remove the dross. That is a material principle. This mortal life and the current universe follows that truth. God is in the process of removing the dross in the most absolutely-just manner imaginable. When complete the perfect comes. We like to argue that if were God, we would make it perfect to begin with, our manner to do this imposes the squelching of free moral will. God does not squelch this, he first refines it and removes the dross according to truth.
Yes, God is all knowing and despite being all knowing and thus knows the final results, he still lets folks make up their own minds freely. Since he already knows the final results of a person's heart toward him, then God can do with each person as he so wills without any violation whatsoever. Jesus came to forgive and heal our violations.
What would have made God unjust is if did not offer a call to humanity to present a choice to return or not. Jesus is known as the Word... The Holy Spirit known as the fire needed to burn away dross... Predestination is summed up in Romans 8:29...
The question is to you, Justhuman, why don't you accept God's call?
You can remain in doubts, and hubris seeking, like most atheist, the goals of atheism upon the entire world,
Please re-read John 3:14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21 and return to the Lord of Host who created the entire universe...