"Apologize to Muslims" rally at Franklin Graham Me

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ttoews
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#31

Post by ttoews » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:59 pm

Kurieuo wrote:The moment one believes God wants us to be responsible in His creation, then complacency goes out the door.... Only under Christ's kingdom will peace reign and therefore pacifism be right, but in our current world where moral atrocities are allowed to be committed, the complacency of pacifism neglects moral responsibility and our God-given obligations to look after His creation and others.
Thanks for answering.....With all due respect I do not think you are being fair to the pacifist. The true pacifist would not raise a hand to defend himself either...but I wouldn't think it appropriate to conclude that such a pacifist would be complacent about his own fate.
If the UN actually did the job they we created to do, they would have helped and defended the Tutsi in Rwanda who were slaughtered by the Hutus. Yes, God stood by the Tutsi as they were slaughtered, and God will stand by the poor if taken advantage of.
Hitler's Germany and Rwanda are a couple of reasons as to why I am not a Pacifist.

Thus, God may be God, and God may stand by people whether victimized or not, but all this says nothing of our God-given responsibility and therefore obligation to look after creation and each other.
...I don't see that such would establish that our responsibility entails use of force (though as indicated, I have personally concluded that such is appropriate in certain circumstances)
Pacifists wash their hands of responsibility to others, and refuse to take necessary action when required, then protest against those who do, because they are black and white and do not wish to muddy their hands.
again I would suggest that you are attributing to pacifists the worst of possible motives in light of the conduct of some of their number....and if same was done wrt non-pacifists, then the non-pacifists would come off the worst by far.

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Kurieuo
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#32

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:51 pm

ttoews wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Pacifists wash their hands of responsibility to others, and refuse to take necessary action when required, then protest against those who do, because they are black and white and do not wish to muddy their hands.
again I would suggest that you are attributing to pacifists the worst of possible motives in light of the conduct of some of their number....and if same was done wrt non-pacifists, then the non-pacifists would come off the worst by far.
I am simply providing the picture of how pacifists would be morally wrong. If you had asked in what respects I believe pacifism is morally right, you would have received a very different answer. There are two sides, and I do not see pacifism as only morally wrong.

At the same time, I think how pacifism is immoral is often overlooked. Just as some one always unreasonably aggressive and desiring war would be the other extreme. Borrowing Aristotelian virtue ethics, I see there is a middle ground between both. All efforts should be made at bringing peace and reconciliation, but failing that, sometimes war is the only alternative.

I see there is room for leaders to be more pacifist. I see US declaring wars out of fear, and I think that is poor since love casts out fear not hate. I often think how the world would be different if love and forgiveness were shown between nations rather than hate and war. Perhaps there would then be more good will? However, humans are generally selfish and greedy desiring power and wealth, and I by no means claim superiority in these areas. Yet, this often means hate and war thrives. I better stop before I ramble on more than I have, but hopefully you have a more balanced perspective of my beliefs.

K
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

ttoews
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#33

Post by ttoews » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:06 pm

Kurieuo wrote: I better stop before I ramble on more than I have, but hopefully you have a more balanced perspective of my beliefs.

K
thanks, I do...they even make sense (IMHO)

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Canuckster1127
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#34

Post by Canuckster1127 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:16 pm

*gasp*

Communication with understanding followed by appreciation.

You two better be careful.

This sort of thing might catch on!

;)
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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ttoews
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#35

Post by ttoews » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:25 pm

Canuckster1127 wrote:*gasp*

Communication with understanding followed by appreciation.

You two better be careful.

This sort of thing might catch on!

;)
nah, we've tried it a number of times before....it never had any impact.

BTW what part of the frozen north did you come from? It is somewhat surprising how many canucks frequent this site...(3 regulars from Calgary alone)

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Canuckster1127
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#36

Post by Canuckster1127 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:20 am

ttoews wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:*gasp*

Communication with understanding followed by appreciation.

You two better be careful.

This sort of thing might catch on!

;)
nah, we've tried it a number of times before....it never had any impact.

BTW what part of the frozen north did you come from? It is somewhat surprising how many canucks frequent this site...(3 regulars from Calgary alone)
I grew up in Burlington Ont, just outside Toronto. I have family throughout Ontario, both North and South.

We Canucks are a thoughtful lot. ;)

Bart
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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#37

Post by bizzt » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:14 am

LOL... Yikes 3 Canucks from Calgary!!!! Originally from Ontario Myself :)

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#38

Post by Gman » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:31 pm

Looks like another Canadian invasion again... :roll:
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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