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Deborah
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anyone

#1

Post by Deborah » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:13 pm

Is there anyone here that believes in the gospel of water and blood?
If so please pm me.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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gospel of water and blood

#2

Post by ray » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:43 am

What is the gospel of water and blood?

RAy

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Deborah
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#3

Post by Deborah » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:27 am

gospel of the water an blood is basically, John the Baptist being the last High Preist and a desendant of Aaron baptised Jesus at the Jordon, effectivly passing the all the sins of man, from Adam to the last man on earth on to Jesus.
And since the penalty for sin is death, the Sacrifice of Christs blood at the cross paid the debt for sin in full.
But the gospel of water and blood says that it wasn't only the death on the cross that is the cause of our salvation, it basically says that the baptism and the death on the cross and linked, ie you can not have one without the other, because one took the sins of humanity and the other is payment in full for the sins of humanity.

Sorry if I am not putting it clearly enough.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#4

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:49 am

Deborah wrote:gospel of the water an blood is basically, John the Baptist being the last High Preist and a desendant of Aaron baptised Jesus at the Jordon, effectivly passing the all the sins of man, from Adam to the last man on earth on to Jesus.
And since the penalty for sin is death, the Sacrifice of Christs blood at the cross paid the debt for sin in full.
But the gospel of water and blood says that it wasn't only the death on the cross that is the cause of our salvation, it basically says that the baptism and the death on the cross and linked, ie you can not have one without the other, because one took the sins of humanity and the other is payment in full for the sins of humanity.

Sorry if I am not putting it clearly enough.
I did some quick googling on the issue.

I take issue with this concept.

Jesus' baptism was unique in that He, as both God and sinless man, had no need for baptism in the sense that anyone else would.

John the Baptist recognized this when he protested against baptizing Jesus and stated he needed Christ to baptize him. Jesus stated he was there to fulfill all righteousness and therefore submitted to it for God's purposes which appear to have included the beginning of Christ's Public ministry by means of a public declaration which included the manifestion, incidentally of God the Father (the voice from heaven), God the Son (Jesus physically present) and the descent of the Holy Spirit (the dove.)

A cursory look at the teaching you reference appears to be promoted by someone by the name of Paul C. Jong. Maybe there are others. I didn't spend a lot of time on it.

The concept appears to be quite gnostic. It in effect claims that Jesus' baptism itself was integral to salvation and without it, Christ's sacrifice has no effect. Therefore, it adds to the gospel message the need to "understand correctly" and "identify within" Jesus baptism. Failure to do so, makes one a heretic and unsaved.

It in effect adds elements to salvation which require special "knowledge" or "understanding" to properly identify with Christ in this manner or one's salvation is not complete.

If Jesus baptism is the event in which God pours man's sin upon Christ, are we to understand that the next 3 years of Christ's ministry were marked in some way by the sin of all mankind resting upon Him throughout?

This is very shallow and brief. We can look deeper if you wish.

Why are you asking, if you don't mind me asking?
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Deborah
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#5

Post by Deborah » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:50 am

Yes a Korean Paster by the name of Paul C. Jong. Transcripts of his sermons have been translated from Korean to many different languages.

If Jesus baptism is the event in which God pours man's sin upon Christ, are we to understand that the next 3 years of Christ's ministry were marked in some way by the sin of all mankind resting upon Him throughout?
I do not know, but time itself is nothing to God right.
Yes I would be happy for someone to go through this with me.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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Canuckster1127
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#6

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:07 am

Deborah wrote:Yes a Korean Paster by the name of Paul C. Jong. Transcripts of his sermons have been translated from Korean to many different languages.

If Jesus baptism is the event in which God pours man's sin upon Christ, are we to understand that the next 3 years of Christ's ministry were marked in some way by the sin of all mankind resting upon Him throughout?
I do not know, but time itself is nothing to God right.
Yes I would be happy for someone to go through this with me.
OK.

First, time is something to Christ in the context of His humanity and earthly ministry. Phill 2:5-11 indicate that Christ voluntarily set aside many of the attributes in the incarnation in order to identify with us in His humanity which was like ours in every regards, except without sin.

Christ's public ministry was about 3 years.

What would be helpful for you in terms of discussing this concept of Jong's?
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

//bartsbarometer.com/

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