How do you view Islam? Vote in Poll

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Christian2
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How do you view Islam? Vote in Poll

#1

Post by Christian2 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:34 pm


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#2

Post by Gman » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:37 pm

I'm not too hot about Islam... I think it's bad for the soul..

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#3

Post by Seeker of Knowledge » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:39 pm

Gman wrote:
I'm not too hot about Islam... I think it's bad for the soul..

That gave me a good laugh :D
And of course i agree... :wink:

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#4

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:24 pm

It's dangerous.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
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#5

Post by zstep14 » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:37 pm

Out of those choices, I would view it favorably, but even that doesn't accurately describe how I feel towards Islam. Besides the Muslim extremists, I respect the faith.

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#6

Post by Gman » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:39 pm

Believe me, I'm pretty liberal when it comes to accepting other faiths, but when it comes to Islam I feel I need to put my shields up. I have researched Islam even before it even became popular around 911 and was stunned on it's teachings... I own two Korans and the Hadith and know what it says. Now, I'm only looking at the doctrine and not the people. The people can be freindly and should be treated respectively. But the doctrine, well, the doctrine speaks for itself. And let me tell you, it dosen't teach much about peace as many claim... (ah, mm, our pres..)

G -

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#7

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:15 pm

I believe people have a right and have been given freedom by God to believe and act based upon their choices. As God has given that right I can respect the right to make that choice even if I diasagree with the choice.

I believe there are sincere Islam believers who are horrified at what a large minority are doing to their religion.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the only means to salvation and a relationship with God and therefore even those Muslims who are sincere are sincerely wrong.

Beyond that, I believe as you study the Koran and the actual tenets of Islam that there is just cause for concern as there are many calls for violence against foreigners and those who are not Muslims. There are factions within Islam that are very strongly in tune with those teachings and therefore, Islam represents a very strong threat to the non-Muslim world. Unfortunately, the majority faction of Islam is not working to keep their fringe in check as strongly as they could. Failure to police one's own community in effect is constructive consent.

Christians have failed in this area in the past as well and I acknowlege that. However, those Christians failure was in not taking the counsel of the whole Word of God and the restraints upon such activity based upon the New Testament and the words of Jesus Christ. Islam and the Koran do not have the strong checks within their system and therefore, I believe there is legitimate cause for concern in the future as militant Islam continues to grow and recruit from the realms of their poor and disenfranchised population who are looking for a course to provide hope and meaning for their lives. Unfortunately there are many who are willing to direct that into the destructive course we are seeing today.
Last edited by Canuckster1127 on Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8

Post by Gman » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:21 pm

Nicely put Canuckster... :)

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#9

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:37 pm

I believe there are sincere Islam believers who are horrified at what a large minority are doing to their religion.
Really? Proof? This assertion is always chanted and it's annoying.

http://jihadwatch.org/
Gradually, they gravitated to the Al-Rahman Islamic Center, a storefront mosque in a small strip mall in Mississauga. There they met Qayyam Abdul Jamal, 43, a taciturn Pakistani native with an angry view of the world. He cleaned the rugs and took out the trash at the mosque. For those services, the directors tolerated his vitriolic speeches that portrayed Muslims as oppressed by the West, according to people familiar with the mosque.

This whopper has been circulating widely, despite its manifest absurdity. He took out the trash, so we let him preach jihad. Imagine the press reaction if a church let the guy who unlocked the doors preach hatred and violence to the youth group because, well, he unlocks the doors. It's amazing that so many reporters seem to pass this on with a straight face.
And then we can go through what the leaders of Muslims groups in the lands of the infidels are saying and threatening.


Mohamed Elibiary of the Freedom and Justice Foundation in Dallas:
I had offered you a trade a little over 1-1/2 years ago to answer your biased questions about speaking at the Irving Shia Mosque if you'd answer mine. I answered all your questions and you independently corroborated my answers, but you sir didn't show the same degree of honesty to answer mine. I, my wife and now my kids are examples of those home grown Muslims you're so fearful of turning violent on you, and my message to you is just treat people fairly and we as a country will make it fine though these rough waters. Treat people as inferiors and you can expect someone to put a banana in your exhaust pipe or something.
You can scroll the site, there are more examples...though it might be a few days/weeks ago by now, I'm not quite sure.

This is also interesting.

UK anti-anti-terror protestors call for Sharia, threaten Blair

"Family's fears at East London terror protest," from the TimesOnline, with thanks to LGF:

Muslims demonstrated outside an East London police station today against last week's anti-terror raid by armed officers.

In a sometimes tense stand-off, about 100 protestors were heavily outnumbered by police as fundamentalists waved placards and called for the implementation of Sharia Law in Britain.

The numbers were small and the demonstration peaceful following an appeal for calm by Scotland Yard's Assistant Commissioner Andy Hayman....

Small, yes, but four times larger than the Free Muslims March Against Terrorism last year.

*Gazes into crystal ball* BGood, don't say that...
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

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You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
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#10

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:02 am

I believe there are sincere Islam believers who are horrified at what a large minority are doing to their religion.
Really? Proof? This assertion is always chanted and it's annoying.

http://jihadwatch.org/


So what? All you're providing here is anecdotal evidence of people who are exposing that very significant and vocal minority.

As such, it is an appeal to emotion to create the impression that this is what all Muslims are doing.

My post, of which you quoted only one line, addresses the legitimacy of the threat and the significance of the movement.

You don't have to overstate the threat in order to make a point. Once you move past facts into an emotional whipping up of the situation then you cease to be rational and move into the realm of what you are accusing Muslims of doing.

That is counterproductive.

Here are some links to condemnations of terrorism by Muslims.

Again, it is not my intent to minimize what I said, in my entire post, of which you addressed only 1 sentence. Not is it my intent to suggest that there is not a serious problem that requires a more active involvement of those Muslims who claim to be in opposition of what is happening in the hijacking of their movement.

Demonizing an entire group of people however is not the answer, nor is it consistent with what Jesus taught or modeled.

http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

http://www.al-islam.org/dilp_statement.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GH05Ak02.html

http://www.australianpolitics.com/news/ ... t-pc.shtml

http://www.middleeastfellowship.org/node/77

Do a google on the web of "islam condemnation of terrorism" and you'll find plenty.

Is it enough? I tend to think not. I believe there needs to be actions tied to those words and a higher level of cooperation within muslim communities in isolating and ceasing to enable the violent minority. I also tend to believe there are significant social and economic factors that are fueling things to a great extent as well.

Simply lumping all Muslims into one category and fueling anti-muslim sentiments with single source highly interpretive blogging such as you offer, does not solve the problem and in fact turns us into what you accuse them of being.

Go back, read my entire post, and if you have specific numbers and percentages from a reputable source to refute my assertion, then by all means post them. You'll need to do better than this however to convince a rational person.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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#11

Post by BGoodForGoodSake » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:22 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote: *Gazes into crystal ball* BGood, don't say that...
lol!

OK, I'll stay out of this one.
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#12

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:13 am

Canuckster1127, I am afraid I, once again, didn't make my point clear. Sure, Muslims may outwardly condemn what terrorists are doing...but where are they refuting the terrorists, who are using Islamic doctrine, with Islamic doctrine? This is what I was trying to say when you claimed Muslims were horrified by what other Muslims were doing...

And I only addressed one line of your post because maybe it was the only part I had any qualms with. Just because I responded to some of what you said doesn't mean I disagree with you entirely. Even BGood and I agree sometimes. I just can't recall any examples of such events.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous

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#13

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:37 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Canuckster1127, I am afraid I, once again, didn't make my point clear. Sure, Muslims may outwardly condemn what terrorists are doing...but where are they refuting the terrorists, who are using Islamic doctrine, with Islamic doctrine? This is what I was trying to say when you claimed Muslims were horrified by what other Muslims were doing...

And I only addressed one line of your post because maybe it was the only part I had any qualms with. Just because I responded to some of what you said doesn't mean I disagree with you entirely. Even BGood and I agree sometimes. I just can't recall any examples of such events.
Fair Enough.

As I stated, I think there are problems with the Koran and that there are strong statements there that are problematic.

Here's some instances however, of Muslims refuting terrorism using Islamic doctrine.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Re ... p?ID=15416

http://www.thewhitepath.com/archives/20 ... rorism.php

http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/terrorism.php

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/ ... islam.html

This is hardly exhaustive by the way.

How effective this will be over time has yet to be seen and I stand by my earlier concerns in terms of the relevence of the pacifist movement in Islam.

I think we should give credit where credit is due however, even while voicing those concerns.

That's my opinion anyway. Others are welcome to express their own.
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#14

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:53 am

My source seems to have many responses to your source, who has the same...this is amusing. This is going to fall apart into posting spencer and Mustafa Akyol I believe...and, my first time posting in a while, and I steer us off course, which was just to get opinions on Islam...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003493.php
Interestingly enough, just yesterday someone sent me this from a Muslim Q&A website, quoting Qur'an 8:39 and 9:5 to say that yes, there is compulsion in religion:

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]” [al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As‑Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” [al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous

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#15

Post by zstep14 » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:12 am

Out of the top ten countries with the highest population of Muslims, only two, which are Pakistan and Iran, are in the Middle East.

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