God, the only one

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
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JBirdAngel
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God, the only one

#1

Post by JBirdAngel » Sun May 15, 2005 2:53 am

i am not sure if this is the right spot for this, but how are we to handle the fact that we cant understand God, it says clearly in the Bible taht God is the only god, not everything in the Bible is exactly what it says though, so could this possibly also mean that God is the only God of this reality, but there are others of, say, his species that perhaps have created other realities or perhaps not?

i mean how do we deal with teh fact that we cannot understand who or what God is and how He was and is? we cannot understand something that comes from nothing, how do we understand that God was just there, always was just there, and the fact that he is the only being as such? if it happened that God exists couldnt it happen that other being similiar exist? for whatever reason i dont like the thought of other beings like God existing, even if it is in some other kind of reality/dimension/universe or what have you, it feels better that God is the only god and that he is God, but how do we deal with the fact that we cant understand any of this and such? thank you

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#2

Post by kateliz » Mon May 16, 2005 6:28 pm

Big questions! Let me just say that questions like these just go away after you come into a true personal relationship with Him. This may not satisfy you for now, which is all really that one can expect, but it's true. How then, "ignoring" such questions, can I be sure my understanding of God and reality is correct? It sounds foolish, but you just know! This is a very intelligent just-knowing, however, because it is God's Spirit within you, (which cannot lie, and knowing God intimately you understand that He absolutely cannot,) which testifies to this. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it- you just get it. The Bible is God's infallible Word, God Himself makes us able to understand Him, and this is all imparted into the depths of our beings, (or should be,) by the Holy Spirit. When you are given this knowledge by His Spirit, there is no issue!

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Kurieuo
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#3

Post by Kurieuo » Mon May 16, 2005 6:44 pm

If not everything in the Bible is exactly what it says, then what does it say? :roll: Many things are exegetically clear, and if God isn't the one and only God, then the Bible is wrong. Just because you may not understand the Trinity does not mean you can whimsically exegete Scripture as you like to insert polytheism. Now is it possible that Christianity could be wrong, and there are really multiple "gods"? Yes, it seems to me logically possible, but I am certain Christianity is right.

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#4

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon May 16, 2005 8:50 pm

This is not an all or nothing situation. We can know God without knowing Him completely. Also, God has said things that cancel out the possibility of many things. Too lazy to look it up, but I'm sure God says He's the one true God.
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He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
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#5

Post by JBirdAngel » Mon May 16, 2005 10:04 pm

right as i said in my post it clearly says that God is the only god and such, also Kurieuo i dont really understand yoru post, but it makes me feel as if your attacking me in ways kind of, which i doubt is your intent, i tend to take things negetively but i dont get what yoru saying, i do not believe that at any time i was saying the Bible was wrong, as i was looking for the right way to understand things that i do not understand... so i wasnt whimsically exegeting Scripture i dont think... i was asking a question on real verses trying to better understand them and how people deal with them... and i dont get your question about everything in the Bible being exactly waht it says, if you think that everything in the Bible is exactly what it says, then that means that you hate your family and friends? because of that verse where Jesus says you must? no i don tthink so, because Jesus wasnt saying for you to hate your family and friends, and we can know this because of all the things about love in the Bible... so i dont exactly understand your trying to make me look foolish or whatever about something that is very plainly true, not everything in the Bible is exactly what it says, such as when Jesus says to hate everyone, such as Jesus' parables, those arent exactly what they are, they have a meaning behind them... so i really dont get your point... no offense meant, but i do feel that you are putting me down and i dont feel there is any need or reason for that

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#6

Post by Tash » Tue May 17, 2005 2:35 am

The idea of god came into existence with the connection of seperate areas of the brain that allow consious thought. that was our begining, and it was his too. from the first time we started interacting with others and the environment we found that we would need guidelines on how to treat others, and answers to questions that we could not answer, like why does the sun go up and down. the greatness of all this and the need for a greater answer than ourselves came God, when we were monkies hanging in the tree we could not comprehend the ideas we would later need, we evolved to beleive, he evolved to our ability, other beings like god will always exist, because it is inevitable that gods ideals will simply be put with a different title,

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Kurieuo
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#7

Post by Kurieuo » Tue May 17, 2005 7:52 am

So since God was apparently invented to sustain guidelines on how to treat others, are you saying Atheists are therefore unable to be moral? ;) If no, than a lot of your argument is eroded. If yes, then I'm sure you'll find many an Atheist who would like to debate that point with you.

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#8

Post by kateliz » Tue May 17, 2005 9:13 am

Jbirdangel, Kurieuo hasn't said so yet, but I'm sure it was just all misunderstandings. Your post was a bit difficult to understand too, and I hope that I got it okay and that my first post was an adequate response. So, you would consider yourself Christian? I know even Christians question things like those if the Holy Spirit hasn't yet given them, (or they haven't received from Him,) the answers. It is perfectly healthy to question things you aren't positive about, even if they contradict what you already truly believe. God does want to be trusted, but I don't think that you weren't. Again, yes the Bible is God's infallible Word, (as I think you know,) and you are right about the nature of what's in it being different in different places. Allegories and records of history are indeed to be interpreted differently like you said, and I know Kurieou would agree.

And Tash, I'm confused here. Why, saying that God only exists in our intelligent human brains, do you have a glorified cross as your avatar picture?

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#9

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Tue May 17, 2005 4:52 pm

Tash, tash, tash. We evolved to think about God, I love it. Why haven't older animals (been around longer) come up with the idea? Why don't the monkeys and such that we used to be have any belief? Only man has a desire for purpose and meaning. Man is the lowliest of creatures according to this. The moss can get what it desires-water, sunlight, nutrients, air....man, though, desires meaning, eternal life, and God....in vain. And it's funny how man, unlike animals, functions better if he does believe in God. Even if it is a made up one, he still functions better (Schaeffer, The God Who Is There).
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
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JBirdAngel
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#10

Post by JBirdAngel » Wed May 18, 2005 11:16 pm

ok copule of things to say so not sure the best way to present it so ill just do it like this heh...

kateliz,

i imagine that i am difficult to understand, plus i tend to take things negatively, so this could very well be, however, i can only see that Kurieuo's response is not an attempt to actually answer my question or to help me gain a better understanding, which is what i come to this forum looking for... it doesnt help to be trying to figure things out and have sarcastic remarks made back, let alone from a moderator and not just a member...

yes i would consider myself a Christian, or atleast i very much hope that i am one... however im not comfortable with most of the talk, or things such as revelations and talking in tounges, which the revelations i think is weird because i have had a couple dreams that i very much hope are real and true that God let me have.... but not sure if ive fully had the Holy Spirit or what all everything is about... not sure what gifts i may have or how i might best serve God

and does your saying tha tyou dont think that i wasnt, mean you dont think that i wasnt a Christian or that i wanst trusting him? like you think im okay and able to be saved and stuff? im very afraid... i want to be saved... but i am afraid of some aspects of God's will that arent spelled out... im so afraid they wont be what i want, even though i do believe that what we all want is the same thing God wants, that our will is His will, or perhaps better put that our will is to do His will, in case the other way of saying it caused controversy... but some things that arent spelled out im afraid wont be how i need or want, even though i feel the Bible very much supports such things, not everyone agrees so i worry, and even if everyone did agree, im sure i would worry... just because its so important, so of course i am afraid

i am not fully sure of the infallible Word's full meaning, the more i learn the more i believe that waht the Bible says is true, rather than Adam and Eve just being a story, i do believe that Adam and Eve were real people, however, i tend more to the meaning being perfect, as even if there was an original perfectly written set of all the writings in the Bible, our current Bibles are not those, and with translations, we cannot have the exact same message, but i believe the meaning behind it is true and there, but that the Holy Spirit (and im worried because as i thought this i wasnt sure if it was real or if the Holy Spirit was and stuff, and so i worry, does this mean im not a Christian, or cant be... sorry i dunno i just worry and am afraid) but i think that the Holy Spirit can help guide us to the right meaning and the truth of the Bible... however i dont believe anyone person can understand the whole Bible, and everything about God and Heaven of course.. i believe that different people are able to get closer to the truth about certain areas, and others other areas, which is one reason having a bored like this is a great thing, but also can be hard when understandings arent the same...



AttentionKMartShoppers, id just like to say that it isnt truely proven that animals don't believe in God, atleast not from anything i know of, nature may have far better faith then we do, and perhaps they dont even question his existence, but all creation suffers because of man... and on this note a question, all creation suffers because of man, this is because, adn it says this in the Bible right? that man is like atleast of this world (meaning not including angels and such) that humans are like God's favorite or best or something creation and that like everything about it and this creation is for us, and we are then for God, liek to serve him, though im sure God takes delight in animals and such too, or i would think he does :) but i just want to understand things and not do anything wrong..


Also then, and Tash this is nothing against you and i mean no offense, i believe that, as long as the language and ideas are appropriate, that everyone has a right to be heard and to share there opinion and so on, howver my question is this, i am not very strong in my faith i dont think and i want to be careful to not take in any false information or be mislead, which today its impossible to not do as such, but like reading Tash's post at first i was thinking that it was the thougths of a Christian on the subject, which made me very confused, but then i realized based on the other posts that others didnt agree... which ive had to do in other posts.. well like in the post about Elijah and John and whether they are the same person or not, which i still have no idea about form that post... but anyways besides just telling myself that not everyone here is a Christian and that these are people opinions rather then the truth, is there any good way to help protect against being lead astray, as i doubt there is any forum or community that is without nonbelievers, and i think that nonbelievers probably add, in a way, a good thing ot the forums as it allows for other viewpoints and ways of thinking about things, which can then in turn just confirm the reality of God and hopefully our faith.. and sorry if nonbelievers is a bad or offensive way to say it....


ok i think thats it... thank you :)

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Kurieuo
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#11

Post by Kurieuo » Wed May 18, 2005 11:55 pm

JBirdAngel wrote:right as i said in my post it clearly says that God is the only god and such, also Kurieuo i dont really understand yoru post, but it makes me feel as if your attacking me in ways kind of, which i doubt is your intent...
kateliz wrote:Kurieuo hasn't said so yet, but I'm sure it was just all misunderstandings.
Kateliz is right to some extent, in that you have taken my comments or emotion used way too personally. My comments if anything were meant to inspire a deeper analysis of what you accept as "givens" within your questions, before running off with your questions.

Yet, any cynicism you detected is likely a reaction to the majority of your posts being, "I'm confused," "I don't understand," "what does this mean," etc? To be upfront it has appeared to me as though you were someone with an agenda to push, pretending to be desiring answers, when infact you were trying to make points with your questions. I mean you opened up about three different threads on God's nature or the Trinity (this one, and also see the second, and third), ignoring my own thread to do with the Trinity. Mixed with the rest of your many questions, suspicion gets raised that hang on... why would someone be opening new threads to only ask many questions often with a hint of criticism, and even the same kind of questions multiple times, unless they're trying to make a point with their questions against Christianity?

Now this may or may not be the case with yourself, and I'm not making a judgement about you here as I really don't know (so don't read insult within my words), but as a moderator desiring to uphold to guidelines, I have no be on the lookout not only for those who are upfront with their anti-Christian motives, but also those who are more sneaky. And to be honest, I'm still on the fence with you, as I really do not know what to make of your posts. Time will tell I suppose, but for now I think one thing would help you greatly before posting. There are many great responses by Christians across the Internet to many of your questions, and Google is a great tool for finding them.
JBird wrote:and i dont get your question about everything in the Bible being exactly waht it says, if you think that everything in the Bible is exactly what it says, then that means that you hate your family and friends? because of that verse where Jesus says you must?
My point still stands that the Bible says exactly what it says. Now whether someone misunderstands a part of it because they fail to use proper exegesis, or they read one or two verses entirely out of context, Scripture still says what is says. I would agree that a verse can be misunderstood if taken out of context or on a surface reading (such as the example you point to in Luke 14:26), yet this does not mean Scripture is not really saying what is says. It just means one is not understanding what is said correctly.

Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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