Worldview vs Mindset

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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#46

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:24 am

Kenny wrote:Precision or not, what I said was true! What he calls worldview; I call my opinion.
You are wrong. You don't know what a worldview is if you keep insisting it is an opinion.
Kenny wrote:Yes several of you did give definitions! But did everybody agree on this definition? No! So I asked questions to each of you according to what your opinion was. Unfortunately sometimes I would ask one person a question and another person would respond who may have a different POV
With the exception of Mallz who unfortunately went down a wrong road with his ''worldview on diamonds'', everybody (Mallz, me, jlay) gave you a correct definition. That you cannot understand how these definitions intersect and complete themselves says a lot for your state of mind.
Kenny wrote:My goal was to get you to answer my question; I got a feeling it isn’t going to happen.
So far, you have proven - over and over - that you don't understand the word worldview, so how could you begin to understand the answer?

FL
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#47

Post by jlay » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:31 am

I guess opinions just pop out of your mind arbitrarily.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#48

Post by Mallz » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:52 am

I've been in and out here and forgot about this thread :oops:

Yes, FL is right about my post and I hope your not getting stuck on my bad, poorly worded example. What I said about diamonds was wrong. You asked for a worldview outside religion. The problem is, a world view is all encompassing of your opinions of the world. It would be impossible to have a worldview without religion somewhere in it because religion is in the world and something everyone will interact with and/or form opinions about.There are countless views about different aspects of the world that make up your view of the world, and a lot of them have nothing to do with religion nor have religious convictions such as 'blood diamonds' which is just a part of your worldview. So what I meant was that you can have opinions and feelings guided by 'other than religion' that contribute to your worldview. And everyone has non-religious aspects to their worldview. Again, that opinion is part of your worldview, not a worldview in itself.

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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#49

Post by Kenny » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:23 am

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Kenny wrote:Precision or not, what I said was true! What he calls worldview; I call my opinion.
You are wrong. You don't know what a worldview is if you keep insisting it is an opinion.
Kenny wrote:Yes several of you did give definitions! But did everybody agree on this definition? No! So I asked questions to each of you according to what your opinion was. Unfortunately sometimes I would ask one person a question and another person would respond who may have a different POV
With the exception of Mallz who unfortunately went down a wrong road with his ''worldview on diamonds'', everybody (Mallz, me, jlay) gave you a correct definition. That you cannot understand how these definitions intersect and complete themselves says a lot for your state of mind.
Kenny wrote:My goal was to get you to answer my question; I got a feeling it isn’t going to happen.
So far, you have proven - over and over - that you don't understand the word worldview, so how could you begin to understand the answer?

FL
If you aren't going to answer my question; maybe you should just ignore me; it's easier that way

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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#50

Post by Kenny » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:25 am

jlay wrote:I guess opinions just pop out of your mind arbitrarily.
Of course not, they are formed according to how you precieve things, or as you would say; according to your worldview.

Ken
Last edited by Kenny on Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#51

Post by Kenny » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:31 am

Mallz wrote:I've been in and out here and forgot about this thread :oops:

Yes, FL is right about my post and I hope your not getting stuck on my bad, poorly worded example. What I said about diamonds was wrong. You asked for a worldview outside religion. The problem is, a world view is all encompassing of your opinions of the world. It would be impossible to have a worldview without religion somewhere in it because religion is in the world and something everyone will interact with and/or form opinions about.There are countless views about different aspects of the world that make up your view of the world, and a lot of them have nothing to do with religion nor have religious convictions such as 'blood diamonds' which is just a part of your worldview. So what I meant was that you can have opinions and feelings guided by 'other than religion' that contribute to your worldview. And everyone has non-religious aspects to their worldview. Again, that opinion is part of your worldview, not a worldview in itself.
Thanks for clearing that up. So if I understand you correctly, your various opinions you might have on a variety of different subjects; are a result of your one world view, am I understanding you correctly? If so, is it fair to assume no 2 people will have the same worldview? Since it is nearly impossible to find two people who will agree on everything?

K
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#52

Post by jlay » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:10 pm

Kenny wrote:
jlay wrote:I guess opinions just pop out of your mind arbitrarily.
Of course not, they are formed according to how you precieve things, or as you would say; according to your worldview.

Ken
So, then you admit that you have a worldview!
:clap:
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#53

Post by Kenny » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:23 pm

jlay wrote:
Kenny wrote:
jlay wrote:I guess opinions just pop out of your mind arbitrarily.
Of course not, they are formed according to how you precieve things, or as you would say; according to your worldview.

Ken
So, then you admit that you have a worldview!
:clap:
Judging from the way you discribed it; I definitely have what you would call a worldview.

Ken
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#54

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:58 pm

Kenny wrote:Judging from the way you discribed it; I definitely have what you would call a worldview.


Good. Now, can you describe - in your own words - the difference between a worldview and a point of view?
Kenny wrote:If so, is it fair to assume no 2 people will have the same worldview?
No. That is a bad assumption. People are not like machines who will always react in a similar manner because of programming. Machines - like the ones on an auto assembly line - don't have personalities, so they all do exactly as programmed, all the time. And machines never get drunk or have a fight with their wife or spend a sleepless night at the hospital because their baby is sick, or win the lottery or fall in love, or drop out of High School or go into post doctoral studies or be very rich or be very poor...and so on.

Do you understand that people with a similar worldview can have different points of view about a subject? What other factors could influence a person's opinion about a given subject?

FL y~o)
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#55

Post by Kenny » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:59 am

jlay wrote:Thanks, it wasn't clear what you were saying happens "all the time." You are using the phrase as hyperbole. Obviously, I don't change worldviews "all the time." Nor do the majority of people. Since there are 6 billion people in the world i don't think this is as common as you imply. But again, we are arguing something without any hard data to back it up either way.
I know of a person who was raised in the South and eventually got a Job that brought him to Washington State. When he first came from the small town in the South he had ideas about different races, homosexuals, politics, religions and preceptions that were more prevelant in the South, but were not prevelant in the West. Now that he has been in Washington State for at least 25 years; now that his enviroment has changed, it seems his attitude towards other races, homosexuals, politics, religion, and a host of other things have changed as well. He has pretty much adopted the attitudes the people in the larger city in Washington state have, and has abandoned his beliefs and preceptions he had before. Do you think this is a result of a worldview change? In other words; do you think it is common for a person's worldview to change according to the enviroment they find themselves in?

Ken
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#56

Post by jlay » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:54 pm

Kenny wrote:
jlay wrote:Thanks, it wasn't clear what you were saying happens "all the time." You are using the phrase as hyperbole. Obviously, I don't change worldviews "all the time." Nor do the majority of people. Since there are 6 billion people in the world i don't think this is as common as you imply. But again, we are arguing something without any hard data to back it up either way.
I know of a person who was raised in the South and eventually got a Job that brought him to Washington State. When he first came from the small town in the South he had ideas about different races, homosexuals, politics, religions and preceptions that were more prevelant in the South, but were not prevelant in the West. Now that he has been in Washington State for at least 25 years; now that his enviroment has changed, it seems his attitude towards other races, homosexuals, politics, religion, and a host of other things have changed as well. He has pretty much adopted the attitudes the people in the larger city in Washington state have, and has abandoned his beliefs and preceptions he had before. Do you think this is a result of a worldview change? In other words; do you think it is common for a person's worldview to change according to the enviroment they find themselves in?

Ken
Certainly, environment influences worldview.
I went through a similar experience. Although I didn't move, i grew up in the south. About five years ago I went through an introspective period of asking myself, "why do you believe what you believe?" Although I wouldn't say my worldview has completely changed it has most certainly evolved (for lack of a better word). And thus, my opinions on certain topics have changed. I would say you can change your opinion without changing your worldview. For example, my worldview includes the option to change my mind as I gain new information.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#57

Post by Kenny » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:23 pm

jlay wrote:
Kenny wrote:
jlay wrote:Thanks, it wasn't clear what you were saying happens "all the time." You are using the phrase as hyperbole. Obviously, I don't change worldviews "all the time." Nor do the majority of people. Since there are 6 billion people in the world i don't think this is as common as you imply. But again, we are arguing something without any hard data to back it up either way.
I know of a person who was raised in the South and eventually got a Job that brought him to Washington State. When he first came from the small town in the South he had ideas about different races, homosexuals, politics, religions and preceptions that were more prevelant in the South, but were not prevelant in the West. Now that he has been in Washington State for at least 25 years; now that his enviroment has changed, it seems his attitude towards other races, homosexuals, politics, religion, and a host of other things have changed as well. He has pretty much adopted the attitudes the people in the larger city in Washington state have, and has abandoned his beliefs and preceptions he had before. Do you think this is a result of a worldview change? In other words; do you think it is common for a person's worldview to change according to the enviroment they find themselves in?

Ken
Certainly, environment influences worldview.
I went through a similar experience. Although I didn't move, i grew up in the south. About five years ago I went through an introspective period of asking myself, "why do you believe what you believe?" Although I wouldn't say my worldview has completely changed it has most certainly evolved (for lack of a better word). And thus, my opinions on certain topics have changed. I would say you can change your opinion without changing your worldview. For example, my worldview includes the option to change my mind as I gain new information.
So worldviews "evolve" rathen than change; according to the enviroment one finds himself in?

Ken
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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#58

Post by FlawedIntellect » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:06 pm

"evolve" means change, though often referring to a series of small-scale sequential changes. Jlay's point, as best as I understand it, is that the core fundamentals of his worldview haven't changed significantly, but rather some aspects of has worldview has changed while keeping the whole intact. (now, I could be wrong somewhere, but this is just my best guess as to what he meant.)

Though yes, generally speaking, a person's worldview can change according to the environment one lives in.
Even so, such change is a personal choice.

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Re: Worldview vs Mindset

#59

Post by Kenny » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:16 pm

FlawedIntellect wrote:"evolve" means change, though often referring to a series of small-scale sequential changes. Jlay's point, as best as I understand it, is that the core fundamentals of his worldview haven't changed significantly, but rather some aspects of has worldview has changed while keeping the whole intact. (now, I could be wrong somewhere, but this is just my best guess as to what he meant.)

Though yes, generally speaking, a person's worldview can change according to the environment one lives in.
Even so, such change is a personal choice.
Thanx for clearing that up.

Ken
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