Can any thing be infinite

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Can any thing be infinite

#1

Post by RickD » Mon May 12, 2014 2:33 pm

This subject came up in another thread.

Assuming God exists, can any thing be infinite?
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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#2

Post by Seraph » Mon May 12, 2014 2:58 pm

Assuming God exists? Probably not.

Not assuming God exists? Yes.
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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#3

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Mon May 12, 2014 3:25 pm

No, it creates a contradiction of events, I find it illogical that something in our material universe could be infinite.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#4

Post by RickD » Mon May 12, 2014 4:04 pm

seraph wrote:
Assuming God exists? Probably not.
daniel wrote:
No, it creates a contradiction of events, I find it illogical that something in our material universe could be infinite.
I agree with you guys, but I can't put an explanation to words. Other than if God exists, nothing can be infinite except God.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#5

Post by Jac3510 » Mon May 12, 2014 4:10 pm

It's hard to put into words because it is a very difficult question. Here's a good article on it.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08004a.htm

There are some ways I know that things cannot be infinite (whether God exists or not). There are others ways that I can't say for sure.
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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#6

Post by RickD » Mon May 12, 2014 4:16 pm

Jac3510 wrote:It's hard to put into words because it is a very difficult question. Here's a good article on it.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08004a.htm

There are some ways I know that things cannot be infinite (whether God exists or not). There are others ways that I can't say for sure.
Jac, I think you posted the wrong link. That link is written in some weird, hard to understand language. I was looking for the "Infinity For Dummies" link. y#-o
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#7

Post by Jac3510 » Mon May 12, 2014 4:23 pm

RickD wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:It's hard to put into words because it is a very difficult question. Here's a good article on it.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08004a.htm

There are some ways I know that things cannot be infinite (whether God exists or not). There are others ways that I can't say for sure.
Jac, I think you posted the wrong link. That link is written in some weird, hard to understand language. I was looking for the "Infinity For Dummies" link. y#-o
I haven't written that one yet. That one is scheduled to come out in the summer of 2074, right after the release of my widely anticipated Simplicity for Dummies. ;)

edit:

On an a serious note, skip down to the section "Infinity of Creatures."
Last edited by Jac3510 on Mon May 12, 2014 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#8

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Mon May 12, 2014 5:05 pm

RickD wrote:
seraph wrote:
Assuming God exists? Probably not.
daniel wrote:
No, it creates a contradiction of events, I find it illogical that something in our material universe could be infinite.
I agree with you guys, but I can't put an explanation to words. Other than if God exists, nothing can be infinite except God.

Ok I see it like this, if infinite's exist in the material world then the universe must be infinite because for an infinite to exist the thing it exists in must be by necessity infinite also. We know the universe cannot be infinite because then we have a problem of an infinite regress of events and we cannot get from the past to the present because there is an infinite amount of events between them.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#9

Post by neo-x » Mon May 12, 2014 10:06 pm

Guys, infinity is a theoretical concept, that is required to solve problems within mathematics and physics. In reality infinity is irrelevant.

For example, consider planet earth, it has a spherical like structure. We know its a finite place. But in theory it is also possible to go around its surface in a circle, infinitely. Now as each point on a sphere can be its center of gravity, that means each point can act like a starting point and ending point for you the travel around the globe in a circular motion along its surface.

So lets say you are traveling along the surface of the earth, and you stop at the north pole. And if I ask you, what is north of the north pole then and there (the compass breaks down at the poles), then the answer is, its irrelevant, since it doesn't affect us. The point, which is north of the north pole, exists, but it exists on a separate surface, so to say, that point's center of gravity doesn't affect us.

In simple words, in space, time is = light travelling at a certain speed to cover a distance. That is how we measure time. Light always decays the further it moves from the source. A star we see today in sky, which is say 3 billion light years away, means that the light we see now was released 3 billion years ago, and if we start travelling towards this star, it may very well be that by the time we reach it the light at the source has decayed. The star has died long ago and we only saw its decaying light back on earth, so in essence while we are travelling back, we can only see as far as the light allows us.

The same way now, look at it on a bigger scale. If infinite exists, it exists beyond the point of the big bang, further back in time. It exists at a point from where the light has decayed already, we can't see that point anymore because there is no light emanating from it, and therefore we can't travel to it (time = light travelling a distance at a certain speed). Strictly speaking, the point before the big band therefore exists outside of time. Which really doesn't mean, timeless, it only means a point where light can't reach any longer and therefore its inaccessible. Remember, I am using a very strict definition of time here so the expression "without time" here, is not equal to infinite. This time is only part of this universe, or time is only as far as we can go back in at the speed of light in this universe. Beyond the point where light has decayed, we can't see or go back to.

By the way this is the same reason why scientists speak of multiverse. Because what existed prior to big bang, existed in time, not in timelessness, but that time is in a different universe, it doesn't connect to us anymore. The "bridge" of light (like an umbilical cord) which connected time between the sister universe and us, has decayed the further we have moved away from it because of the big bang. Therefore our universe has separated from the sister universe outside of our universe, one that we can't see any more.

But this also means that what has happened beyond the big bang, doesn't affect us, since its effect(s) can't travel to us either. And since it doesn't affect us and we can never see it, it is irrelevant in actual reality since it neither changes nor impacts in anyway on our universe.
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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#10

Post by Vansdad » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:38 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:No, it creates a contradiction of events, I find it illogical that something in our material universe could be infinite.
What about our soul/spirit? There was no mention of physical

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#11

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:58 am

RickD wrote:This subject came up in another thread.

Assuming God exists, can any thing be infinite?
Oh, that's such an easy question to answer.

Abstract objects and divine attributes perhaps, if they be considered "things".

Abstract -> maths, numbers, languages of sorts
Attributes -> goodness, righteousness, love, existence/being, knowledge

Physical "things"? Contingent. So not infinite.

Time = series. Infinite series impossible. Even time begins. Needs to start somewhere. Hence we love to fudge with infinite symbols in past/future directions.

If hypothesize an "all at once" series. Which then conceptually hard to see how it represents a series.
Such likely more resembles an immaterial abstract "thing" as described above.

See, so simple. Did I fake acting like I know well enough?
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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#12

Post by Squible » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:38 am

Isn't it important to remember that there is two kinds of infinite?

For example potential infinite and actual infinite.

Whereby, a potential infinite would be for example, the dividing a between two points and then those two points and so on. As such you never actually get to infinity.

Conversely, an actual infinite would be the set of all numbers. Or an actual infinite number of books. Contradictions with infinites seem to become very apparent when we deal with actual infinites.

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#13

Post by Audie » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:35 pm

RickD wrote:
seraph wrote:
Assuming God exists? Probably not.
daniel wrote:
No, it creates a contradiction of events, I find it illogical that something in our material universe could be infinite.
I agree with you guys, but I can't put an explanation to words. Other than if God exists, nothing can be infinite except God.
2/3 as a decimal fraction is infinite

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#14

Post by Squible » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:53 pm

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
seraph wrote:
Assuming God exists? Probably not.
daniel wrote:
No, it creates a contradiction of events, I find it illogical that something in our material universe could be infinite.
I agree with you guys, but I can't put an explanation to words. Other than if God exists, nothing can be infinite except God.
2/3 as a decimal fraction is infinite
It's also a potential infinite not an actual infinite.

Contradictions occur especially with actual infinites..

When we say God is infinite I believe it is referring in an analogous way..

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Re: Can any thing be infinite

#15

Post by Audie » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:19 am

Um squib that went over my head, I have no idea what you said.

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