Political Party

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Political Party

#1

Post by UsagiTsukino » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:30 pm

Does it matter if I'm a liberal and a democrat to God. I know in romans who told people to submit to the government( has long has it doesn't have rule god of course)

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Re: Political Party

#2

Post by crookedvulture » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:09 am

My personal political convictions are quite a bit more convoluted than a simple left/right distinction and I have Christian friends all over the spectrum (liberals, conservatives, libertarians, socialists, anarchists, voluntaryists, etc...), but each have their own way of reconciling their chosen ideology with the Lord. I, however, have chosen to keep from choosing one ideology and sticking with it, since I haven't found one where I don't find a good number of problems within it. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 states "Test all things; hold fast what is good." So, critically examine everything within the democratic circle and see if it is what God views as morally right. If you come to find any problems (and believe me, if you're honest with yourself you'll find at least a few with any political party), I'd say it'd be wise to meditate on it a bit.

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Re: Political Party

#3

Post by crookedvulture » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:21 am

However, interesting you bring up Romans. Here's a video.

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Re: Political Party

#4

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:39 pm

In supporting Democrats, you are directly supporting a party that has adopted a pro-infanticide and anti-family platform. Both of these are abominations to God. In doing so, you are actually cooperating in the evils in question, and all cooperation in evil is sin. Depending on your own internal convictions, such cooperation may be formal or material, but it that really is all beside the point. You're cooperating with evil, and that's always evil.

Economic matters are another issue entirely. A common Republican argument (that I happen to agree with, by the way) is that the Democrat soak-the-rich-to-redistribute-the-wealth is not merely economically stupid, but more importantly it is immoral insofar as it amounts to legalized theft. Now while some would argue that you are cooperating with evil in legalizing theft, I think that's a step too far. Such matters are simply not as clear cut as in the cases of abortion and same-sex "marriage." So while I may disagree with a most of the Democrat platform, I wouldn't say (personally) that the platform as such is intrinsically opposed to God's will, but that in these two particular issues, they absolutely are.

Thu, I would say that yes, it matters to God that you are a liberal Democrat in just the same way that it would have mattered to God if you were a member of the Klu Klux Klan (for instance). It is not an unforgivable sin, and it doesn't mean you are going to Hell. It doesn't mean that you are not a Christian or that you should be excommunicated from a church (although if you were a politician casting such votes, I as a pastor of a church would certainly excommunicate you from mine). It doesn't even mean that you should be shunned by other Christians. But sin is sin, and you should recognize it as such and repent of it immediately.

y[-X y[-o<
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Political Party

#5

Post by crookedvulture » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:05 pm

I could go into a decent rant about how both major parties irritate me so, but I think Jac is pretty spot on.

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Re: Political Party

#6

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:21 pm

I vote for a minor party which has Christian values.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Political Party

#7

Post by Philip » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:17 pm

I vote for a minor party which has Christian values.
And which party is THAT?!!!

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Re: Political Party

#8

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:19 pm

Philip wrote:
I vote for a minor party which has Christian values.
And which party is THAT?!!!
Rise up Australia party

http://riseupaustraliaparty.com/

I don't agree with everything but they are the closest to Christian values I can find.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Political Party

#9

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:20 pm

Philip wrote:
I vote for a minor party which has Christian values.
And which party is THAT?!!!
In America, the Constitution Party.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Political Party

#10

Post by UsagiTsukino » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:23 pm

U might disagree but I am pro choice many of you will look at me crazy but looking at the Hebrew words it's Clear to me that once a person is born is when they are human. When looking at the Jewish view of life in the Talmund it's consider the fetus it's not a person but part of its mother. I'm for gay marriage I have prayed to god over and what looked at the Hebrew words and many other things. Go on hate me.

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Re: Political Party

#11

Post by Philip » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:28 pm

UsagiTsukino, you need to broach these topics in their appropriate threads! There are many on the topics you brought up.

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Re: Political Party

#12

Post by Seraph » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:30 pm

Jac3510 wrote:In supporting Democrats, you are directly supporting a party that has adopted a pro-infanticide and anti-family platform. Both of these are abominations to God. In doing so, you are actually cooperating in the evils in question, and all cooperation in evil is sin. Depending on your own internal convictions, such cooperation may be formal or material, but it that really is all beside the point. You're cooperating with evil, and that's always evil.

Economic matters are another issue entirely. A common Republican argument (that I happen to agree with, by the way) is that the Democrat soak-the-rich-to-redistribute-the-wealth is not merely economically stupid, but more importantly it is immoral insofar as it amounts to legalized theft. Now while some would argue that you are cooperating with evil in legalizing theft, I think that's a step too far. Such matters are simply not as clear cut as in the cases of abortion and same-sex "marriage." So while I may disagree with a most of the Democrat platform, I wouldn't say (personally) that the platform as such is intrinsically opposed to God's will, but that in these two particular issues, they absolutely are.

Thu, I would say that yes, it matters to God that you are a liberal Democrat in just the same way that it would have mattered to God if you were a member of the Klu Klux Klan (for instance). It is not an unforgivable sin, and it doesn't mean you are going to Hell. It doesn't mean that you are not a Christian or that you should be excommunicated from a church (although if you were a politician casting such votes, I as a pastor of a church would certainly excommunicate you from mine). It doesn't even mean that you should be shunned by other Christians. But sin is sin, and you should recognize it as such and repent of it immediately.

y[-X y[-o<
One could just as easily look to the conservative republican platform and very quickly find examples of encouraging the opposite of what Jesus taught regarding lower class citizens and just plain being a party of liars when God is a God who encourages honest truth. When taking in everything as a whole, conservative republicans are no more in line with the bible on matters than liberal democrats.

In my personal opinion, the most "In line with God" political party/ideology is to be independent, taking the good from both parties and rejecting the bad. Neither party can call themselves the Christian party. On many issues it is impossible to say what God would say, so that could look like many different possible things. For me in particular, I tend to side with democrats on a lot of (not all) economic issues, and republicans on a lot (not all) of social issues.
Last edited by Seraph on Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Political Party

#13

Post by RickD » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:38 pm

UsagiTsukino wrote:U might disagree but I am pro choice many of you will look at me crazy but looking at the Hebrew words it's Clear to me that once a person is born is when they are human. When looking at the Jewish view of life in the Talmund it's consider the fetus it's not a person but part of its mother. I'm for gay marriage I have prayed to god over and what looked at the Hebrew words and many other things. Go on hate me.
Do you mind if I ask your age?
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Re: Political Party

#14

Post by Philip » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:39 pm

Philip wrote:

I vote for a minor party which has Christian values.



And which party is THAT?!!!


In America, the Constitution Party.
They need a better PR man!

Problem is, electing for national (president, Senate, House) offices, ANY party based upon truly Christian values needs enough voters who appreciate and revere Christian values, to get its candidates elected. And we may have crossed the secular Rubicon already (I sure hope not!). Of course, Christians themselves are often confused about how their values might be best extended by their votes, or they are not paying attention to the words and records of various candidates. OR, even worse, THEY NEVER VOTE AT ALL! :shakehead:

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Re: Political Party

#15

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:47 pm

UsagiTsukino wrote:U might disagree but I am pro choice many of you will look at me crazy but looking at the Hebrew words it's Clear to me that once a person is born is when they are human. When looking at the Jewish view of life in the Talmund it's consider the fetus it's not a person but part of its mother. I'm for gay marriage I have prayed to god over and what looked at the Hebrew words and many other things. Go on hate me.
1. I can read Hebrew (and I don't mean I know how to look up words in Strongs). You are mistaken. The biblical view is that life begins at conception.
2. I teach medical ethics at a local seminary from a biblical as well as a secular perspective. You are wrong on the abortion issue.
3. I teach sexual ethics at a local seminary from both a biblical as well as a secular perspective. You are wrong on the gay marriage issue.

I don't hate you. As I said, none of this means you are not a Christian. It does mean that you are wrong and that you are promoting sin. Perhaps we can be charitable and say you are doing it in ignorance, but ignorance does not excuse sin. It is sin all the same.

As an aside, the Talmud is not inspired literature. The question is what the OT says.

And one more aside, 2 and 3 above are not meant to be arguments. They are simply assertions, similar to the ones you made above. And besides, you asked whether or not God cared if you are a Democrat. I argued that He does strictly because He cares that you are pro-infanticide and anti-family. You can dispute that, of course, but then you are not arguing against the actual point. Quite the contrary, you are accepting the premise of my argument (if abortion and gay marriage are sin then God opposes the Democrat party), but you just reject the minor premise (abortion and gay marriage are sin).
Seraph wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:In supporting Democrats, you are directly supporting a party that has adopted a pro-infanticide and anti-family platform. Both of these are abominations to God. In doing so, you are actually cooperating in the evils in question, and all cooperation in evil is sin. Depending on your own internal convictions, such cooperation may be formal or material, but it that really is all beside the point. You're cooperating with evil, and that's always evil.

Economic matters are another issue entirely. A common Republican argument (that I happen to agree with, by the way) is that the Democrat soak-the-rich-to-redistribute-the-wealth is not merely economically stupid, but more importantly it is immoral insofar as it amounts to legalized theft. Now while some would argue that you are cooperating with evil in legalizing theft, I think that's a step too far. Such matters are simply not as clear cut as in the cases of abortion and same-sex "marriage." So while I may disagree with a most of the Democrat platform, I wouldn't say (personally) that the platform as such is intrinsically opposed to God's will, but that in these two particular issues, they absolutely are.

Thu, I would say that yes, it matters to God that you are a liberal Democrat in just the same way that it would have mattered to God if you were a member of the Klu Klux Klan (for instance). It is not an unforgivable sin, and it doesn't mean you are going to Hell. It doesn't mean that you are not a Christian or that you should be excommunicated from a church (although if you were a politician casting such votes, I as a pastor of a church would certainly excommunicate you from mine). It doesn't even mean that you should be shunned by other Christians. But sin is sin, and you should recognize it as such and repent of it immediately.

y[-X y[-o<
One could just as easily look to the conservative republican platform and very quickly find examples of encouraging the opposite of what Jesus taught regarding lower class citizens and just plain being a party of liars when God is a God who encourages honest truth. When taking in everything as a whole, conservative republicans are no more in line with the bible on matters than liberal democrats.

In my personal opinion, the most "In line with God" political party/ideology is to be independent, taking the good from both parties and rejecting the bad. Neither party can call themselves the Christian party. On many issues it is impossible to say what God would say, so that could look like many different possible things.
The question wasn't whether or not God cared if we are Republican. It was whether or not God cares if we are Democrats.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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